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RonOnGuitar
Joined: 08 Jan 2003 Posts: 1916
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Want to see what the people of Baghdad look like? |
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"I'm guessing the arrest was related to defiance more than putting up flyers"
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Yeah, NRK, it is hard to tell from the info given just what happened and it's human nature to give things our personal spin(we are funny creatures that way!). What seems likely, as near as I can figure, is they were probably told they couldn't tack up the photos w/o permission from whomever but resisted that admonition.
Going along Chris' line of thought here, they may have continued posting the posters/resisted so as to end up in jail for their cause. Which is actually comendable, in the sense that we humans are very often wont to avoid the consequences for what we do.
==ron==
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RonOnGuitar
Joined: 08 Jan 2003 Posts: 1916
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: soon, very soon |
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Hi again lasherite,
As I sez, nothing should detract from the images that Chris has passed along here. Although the possibility of being subjected to weapons such as this (gas, bio, chem) is unfortunately part of the "job description" for the volunteer armed forces of the US and allies, non-combatants don't have a choice in the matter.
And as you sez, hopefully it will be over before too long with minimal loss of any human life. This type of very "indicriminate" WMDs is some scary stuff if Hussein wants a "blaze of glory" exit with the armed forces, some Gulf states (e.g. Kuwait, the Saudis) and Israel being highly likely targets.
The kind of thing that serves as a reminder that war should not be entered into lightly or with eagerness. I think most Americans - and other folks - are keeping their fingers crossed that things will turn out well down the road. Afghanistan isn't quite an Eden-like paradise these days, however I suspect the Afghanis don't miss the Taliban a whole lot.
But Godspeed to all that may be in harm's way, civilians and military on all sides.
==ron==
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lasherite
Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 47
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 6:43 pm Post subject: indeed |
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indeed, ron, indeed.
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MIKE BURN Generally Crazy Guy
Joined: 08 Nov 2001 Posts: 4825 Location: Frankfurt / Europe
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Want to see what the people of Baghdad look like? |
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Quote: I think the iraqi people will thank the U.S. when it is over.
While knowing that 60% of the Iraqi population are shiitic moslems, the religious tribe Osama Bin Laden belongs to,
I hardly can imagine that... or let's say it is funny that
the U.S. wnat to "free" the people, which obviously
didn't hesitate to blow up the WTC.
To RonOnGuitar I would like to say, that just last week,
the security counselor of Bush Sr. clearly admitted in a
German TV report last week, that it was U.S. gas, delivered
by the U.S., which was used by Saddam to gas the Kurds
back in the late 80's. At this time they were a problem
for the U.S. as for Iraq as well. Nobody wanted a god-state
in Iran spilling over and destabilizing Iraq as well.
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lasherite
Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 47
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 7:08 pm Post subject: ? |
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wait and see....i think the iraqi populace will be glad sd will be gone. whether they like the u.s. for it or not is a non issue. i don't for an instant think that all shiite muslims want to destroy anything.
gas manufactured by the u.s.? not likely. perhaps the machinery to make such chemicals, provided by u.s. companies, and other companies in the world. i know, because i lived there when it was happening, the u.s. destroyed it's stocks of chemical and gas weapons in the mid 70's. they were too unstable to stockpile. the were stored at the pinebluff arsenal in arkansas. took years to destroy them.
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MIKE BURN Generally Crazy Guy
Joined: 08 Nov 2001 Posts: 4825 Location: Frankfurt / Europe
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: ? |
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Quote: i don't for an instant think that all shiite muslims want to destroy anything.
We can agree on this. However, considering the whole
argumentation for an attack, while locking out the U.N. now,
it seems rather funny that the shiitic population should
"welcome" and "celebrate" the U.S.
The shiitic population in the south of Iraq, was promised
after the last war that they will be protected and involved
in the political process by the U.S.
In reality, when the war was over, nobody cared about them
anymore and this makes the opinion and feel of distrust towards the U.S. from this people more reasonable.
Considering the gas.... it was the security advisor of
Bush senior, who said that in German TV. Not myself.
Maybe he was wrong informed, like Powell when he
presented the fake Nigeria/Uranium 'evidence' at the
U.N. presentation.............
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lasherite
Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 47
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 7:38 pm Post subject: stay |
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it's true, the u.s. should have stayed in southern, and northern iraq after the last round. and you can't blame those people for being suspicious. the current discussion i see going on here is how many troops do we leave there to ensure some stability. 200,000 have been mentioned. the question is, will the general u.s. populace support leaving such numbers of troops in place....historically they do not. i hope differently this time.
will they celebrate and welcome the u.s.? probably not, they will celebrate and welcome sd being gone i think, although the kuwatis celebrated some didn't they?
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RonOnGuitar
Joined: 08 Jan 2003 Posts: 1916
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Want to see what the people of Baghdad look like? |
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"To RonOnGuitar I would like to say, that just last week,
the security counselor of Bush Sr. clearly admitted in a
German TV report last week, that it was U.S. gas, delivered
by the U.S., which was used by Saddam to gas the Kurds
back in the late 80's. At this time they were a problem
for the U.S. as for Iraq as well. Nobody wanted a god-state
in Iran spilling over and destabilizing Iraq as well. "
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Hi Mike,
You are quite correct that too often a policy is decided on what seems like a good idea at the time - and it comes back to haunt at a later date. Unfortunately, no country is free of excercising that particular bad judgment.
Nations will enter into alliances that serve a purpose(s) and later need to adjust to a new reality. This was the case with Joseph Stalin and the USSR in WWII. After that time, the Western world focused on putting the USSR out of business. The resistance that the US helped in Afghanistan againgt the USSR had to itself be dealt with after 9-11, with the allies accomplishing in one month what the Soviets failed to do even after 10 years.
I'm not sure about what you've relayed, Mike, but I'll take it as true. The logical conclusion, then, is that a nation has to "clean up" whatever mistakes it may have made - hopefully this will be done with minimal loss of life and in a short time. Sadly, many nations do not take such responsibilty. France gave Hussein nuclear capability in the early 80s, but left it up to Israel to take it away. That's not finger-pointing or blame-shifting, just an illustration of the neccesity of somebody taking responsibilty to undo great wrongs.
Always helpful to hear different opinions, Mike, thanks for the shout on this!
==ron==
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Seismic Anamoly
Joined: 22 Aug 2002 Posts: 3039
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MIKE BURN Generally Crazy Guy
Joined: 08 Nov 2001 Posts: 4825 Location: Frankfurt / Europe
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lasherite
Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 47
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Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 11:01 pm Post subject: !! |
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more importantly, it's warm and humid and my martin is sitting on a stand "breathing" some of this wonderous humidity after a dry winter.
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MIKE BURN Generally Crazy Guy
Joined: 08 Nov 2001 Posts: 4825 Location: Frankfurt / Europe
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MIKE BURN Generally Crazy Guy
Joined: 08 Nov 2001 Posts: 4825 Location: Frankfurt / Europe
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lasherite
Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 47
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2003 1:17 am Post subject: likely |
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""What has come to trouble me most over past weeks is the suspicion that if the hanging chads in Florida had gone the other way and Al Gore had been elected we would not now be about to commit British troops," he said."
most likely true,,,old al can't even bring himself to whittle a twig or use a wooden tooth pick. but he can feel your pain.
regardless, it's moot what is posted here about this situation. it's a done deal, has been since november last year.
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Seismic Anamoly
Joined: 22 Aug 2002 Posts: 3039
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