Want to see what the people of Baghdad look like?

[RonOnGuitar]

"I'm guessing the arrest was related to defiance more than putting up flyers"

=====



Yeah, NRK, it is hard to tell from the info given just what happened and it's human nature to give things our personal spin(we are funny creatures that way!). What seems likely, as near as I can figure, is they were probably told they couldn't tack up the photos w/o permission from whomever but resisted that admonition.



Going along Chris' line of thought here, they may have continued posting the posters/resisted so as to end up in jail for their cause. Which is actually comendable, in the sense that we humans are very often wont to avoid the consequences for what we do.





==ron==

[RonOnGuitar]

Hi again lasherite,



As I sez, nothing should detract from the images that Chris has passed along here. Although the possibility of being subjected to weapons such as this (gas, bio, chem) is unfortunately part of the "job description" for the volunteer armed forces of the US and allies, non-combatants don't have a choice in the matter.



And as you sez, hopefully it will be over before too long with minimal loss of any human life. This type of very "indicriminate" WMDs is some scary stuff if Hussein wants a "blaze of glory" exit with the armed forces, some Gulf states (e.g. Kuwait, the Saudis) and Israel being highly likely targets.



The kind of thing that serves as a reminder that war should not be entered into lightly or with eagerness. I think most Americans - and other folks - are keeping their fingers crossed that things will turn out well down the road. Afghanistan isn't quite an Eden-like paradise these days, however I suspect the Afghanis don't miss the Taliban a whole lot.



But Godspeed to all that may be in harm's way, civilians and military on all sides.



==ron==

[lasherite]

indeed, ron, indeed.

[MIKE BURN]

Quote:

---

I think the iraqi people will thank the U.S. when it is over.

---

While knowing that 60% of the Iraqi population are shiitic moslems, the religious tribe Osama Bin Laden belongs to,

I hardly can imagine that... or let's say it is funny that

the U.S. wnat to "free" the people, which obviously

didn't hesitate to blow up the WTC.





To RonOnGuitar I would like to say, that just last week,

the security counselor of Bush Sr. clearly admitted in a

German TV report last week, that it was U.S. gas, delivered

by the U.S., which was used by Saddam to gas the Kurds

back in the late 80's. At this time they were a problem

for the U.S. as for Iraq as well. Nobody wanted a god-state

in Iran spilling over and destabilizing Iraq as well.

[lasherite]

wait and see....i think the iraqi populace will be glad sd will be gone. whether they like the u.s. for it or not is a non issue. i don't for an instant think that all shiite muslims want to destroy anything.



gas manufactured by the u.s.? not likely. perhaps the machinery to make such chemicals, provided by u.s. companies, and other companies in the world. i know, because i lived there when it was happening, the u.s. destroyed it's stocks of chemical and gas weapons in the mid 70's. they were too unstable to stockpile. the were stored at the pinebluff arsenal in arkansas. took years to destroy them.

[MIKE BURN]

Quote:

---

i don't for an instant think that all shiite muslims want to destroy anything.

---

We can agree on this. However, considering the whole

argumentation for an attack, while locking out the U.N. now,

it seems rather funny that the shiitic population should

"welcome" and "celebrate" the U.S.



The shiitic population in the south of Iraq, was promised

after the last war that they will be protected and involved

in the political process by the U.S.



In reality, when the war was over, nobody cared about them

anymore and this makes the opinion and feel of distrust towards the U.S. from this people more reasonable.



Considering the gas.... it was the security advisor of

Bush senior, who said that in German TV. Not myself.

Maybe he was wrong informed, like Powell when he

presented the fake Nigeria/Uranium 'evidence' at the

U.N. presentation.............

[lasherite]

it's true, the u.s. should have stayed in southern, and northern iraq after the last round. and you can't blame those people for being suspicious. the current discussion i see going on here is how many troops do we leave there to ensure some stability. 200,000 have been mentioned. the question is, will the general u.s. populace support leaving such numbers of troops in place....historically they do not. i hope differently this time.



will they celebrate and welcome the u.s.? probably not, they will celebrate and welcome sd being gone i think, although the kuwatis celebrated some didn't they?

[RonOnGuitar]

"To RonOnGuitar I would like to say, that just last week,

the security counselor of Bush Sr. clearly admitted in a

German TV report last week, that it was U.S. gas, delivered

by the U.S., which was used by Saddam to gas the Kurds

back in the late 80's. At this time they were a problem

for the U.S. as for Iraq as well. Nobody wanted a god-state

in Iran spilling over and destabilizing Iraq as well. "

===============



Hi Mike,

You are quite correct that too often a policy is decided on what seems like a good idea at the time - and it comes back to haunt at a later date. Unfortunately, no country is free of excercising that particular bad judgment.



Nations will enter into alliances that serve a purpose(s) and later need to adjust to a new reality. This was the case with Joseph Stalin and the USSR in WWII. After that time, the Western world focused on putting the USSR out of business. The resistance that the US helped in Afghanistan againgt the USSR had to itself be dealt with after 9-11, with the allies accomplishing in one month what the Soviets failed to do even after 10 years.



I'm not sure about what you've relayed, Mike, but I'll take it as true. The logical conclusion, then, is that a nation has to "clean up" whatever mistakes it may have made - hopefully this will be done with minimal loss of life and in a short time. Sadly, many nations do not take such responsibilty. France gave Hussein nuclear capability in the early 80s, but left it up to Israel to take it away. That's not finger-pointing or blame-shifting, just an illustration of the neccesity of somebody taking responsibilty to undo great wrongs.



Always helpful to hear different opinions, Mike, thanks for the shout on this!



==ron==

[Seismic Anamoly]

Quote:

---

Maybe he was wrong informed.....

---

One thing is absolute ...there's plenty of THAT going around....WORLDWIDE....

[MIKE BURN]

Yeah SeisProlly!



Information is important..........

...not only that a 23 years old U.S. citizen was killed

yesterday by Israeli forces......



I foresee that in the last minute Bush will talk Australia into

the war (maybe today before his speech) and that Israel will blatantly increase military activity in Palestine in the "backyard" of the Iraq thingy.....



Let's see if you can prove me wrong.

[lasherite]

more importantly, it's warm and humid and my martin is sitting on a stand "breathing" some of this wonderous humidity after a dry winter.

[MIKE BURN]

Problems already there...

Quote:

---

(BBC U.K.)People in Kurdish-held northern Iraq have begun leaving their homes with war against Baghdad becoming imminent.



A steady trickle of vehicles was on the move, heading away from front lines with government-controlled areas to safer places to the north (Turkey).







The move comes as Iraqi Kurdish leaders hold urgent talks in Ankara with Turkish and US officials to avoid a possible Turkish invasion of northern Iraq.



Turkey is concerned that any war could lead to an independent Kurdish state in northern Iraq that may rekindle similar aspirations in Turkey's Kurdish areas.



Exodus



The BBC's Jim Muir in northern Iraq says that many of the shops in the town of Cham Chamal, right on the edge of government-controlled Iraq, are closed and shuttered.



Iraqi Kurds have repeatedly warned that they will fight the Turkish army if it intervenes in their region.



Turkey already has thousands of troops in Kurdish-held northern Iraq, and there is widespread suspicion in the region that it may send troops across the border if war breaks out.



The BBC's Sadeq Saba says that the possibility of a Turkish invasion is putting new strain on relations between Washington and Ankara.





Kurdish Milicia at the Turkish border

---

[MIKE BURN]

Foreign secretary Robin Cook resigns from Blair's administration









Robin Cook has won an unprecedented standing ovation in the House of Commons after telling MPs why he resigned from the government over the looming war with Iraq.



Mr Cook said he could not back a march towards a war that did not have international and domestic support.



In a Commons statement that followed his resignation as leader of the House earlier on Monday, he went on to warn that international alliances of all kinds were under threat now that the diplomatic route had been abandoned.



"Neither the international community nor the British public are persuaded that there is an urgent and compelling reason for this action in Iraq," he said.



The resignation is seen as a blow to Mr Blair coming just hours before he is due to ask MPs to authorise the use of "all means necessary" to disarm Iraq.



Mr Cook said that Iraq's military strength was less than half what it had been at the time of the last Gulf War.



It was illogical to argue, therefore, that Iraq presented a threat and moreover that that threat justified war.



Furthermore, he said, Iraq probably had no weapons of mass destruction in the "commonly understood" sense of being a credible threat that could be delivered on "a city target."



He drew a comparison over the impatience shown with Iraq over its failure to comply with the will of the UN and the situation in Palestine.



"It is over 30 years since resolution 242 called on Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories," he reflected.



The former foreign secretary went on to express alarm that the US administration seemed more interested in regime change that in Iraq's disarmament.



"What has come to trouble me most over past weeks is the suspicion that if the hanging chads in Florida had gone the other way and Al Gore had been elected we would not now be about to commit British troops," he said.

[lasherite]

""What has come to trouble me most over past weeks is the suspicion that if the hanging chads in Florida had gone the other way and Al Gore had been elected we would not now be about to commit British troops," he said."



most likely true,,,old al can't even bring himself to whittle a twig or use a wooden tooth pick. but he can feel your pain.



regardless, it's moot what is posted here about this situation. it's a done deal, has been since november last year.

[Seismic Anamoly]

Quote:

---

it's moot what is posted here....

---

...my advice to anyone who doesn't like that is the same as that given by of one of my mainmost men....

Quote:

---

"Don't Hate tha Playa; Hate tha GAME..." - Too $hort

---

Goodbye, Saddam...Rest In Pieces...