2nd post - Israeli army loses credibility

The Master68 · Joined: 04 Nov 2004 Posts: 442

Yeah, but can they get away with it?

Or will they be shot as "deserters"?

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When you argue with a fool, be sure he isn't similarly occupied...

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Music - Organismo Cibernetico (Cybernetic Organism)

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

Can you give us a link, Mr. conal? You'll excuse me if I don't accept your one-sided word for much of anything at this point.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

Conal Rehill · Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 26

Tonight on BBC Northern Ireland a film was shown where an Israeli soldier dragged a 13 year-old Palestinian girl across the ground and murdered her with a machine-gun. He riddled her with bullets. An ex-Israeli soldier came on saying that this sort of thing is common and the Israeli army is full of thugs and murderers. He is part of the 'Courage to Refuse' movement, so I looked it up and here is their mission statement:

We, reserve combat officers and soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces, who were raised upon the principles of Zionism, self-sacrifice and giving to the people of Israel and to the State of Israel, who have always served in the front lines, and who were the first to carry out any mission in order to protect the State of Israel and strengthen it.

We, combat officers and soldiers who have served the State of Israel for long weeks every year, in spite of the dear cost to our personal lives, have been on reserve duty in the Occupied Territories, and were issued commands and directives that had nothing to do with the security of our country, and that had the sole purpose of perpetuating our control over the Palestinian people.

We, whose eyes have seen the bloody toll this Occupation exacts from both sides,

We, who sensed how the commands issued to us in the Occupied Territories destroy all the values that we were raised upon,

We, who understand now that the price of Occupation is the loss of IDF’s human character and the corruption of the entire Israeli society,

We, who know that the Territories are not a part of Israel, and that all settlements are bound to be evacuated,

We hereby declare that we shall not continue to fight this War of the Settlements.

We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.

We hereby declare that we shall continue serving the Israel Defense Force in any mission that serves Israel’s defense.

The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose – and we shall take no part in them.

Conal Rehill · Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 26

As you can see, my name is Conal Rehill. So the formal address would be Mr. Rehill. Addressing me as Mr. Conal would be similar to addressing George Bush as Mr. George or Donald Rumsfeld as Mr. Donald. I'm sure you wouldn't do that. I'm Northern Irish, not Chinese.

There are a number of links, but this seems to be the central one.

www.refusersolidarity.net/

However, I have a feeling that you will be resistant to any truths that you may find there.

Sloppy Chimbo · Joined: 05 Dec 2004 Posts: 14

Oh, my . . . he has a feeling

Conal Rehill · Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 26

"Oh, my . . . he has a feeling"

OK, I was warned that in my search for intelligent argument I was wasting my time here because this place is troll-ridden.

I'll try somewhere else. The problem is that I've been to quite a few politics boards, but I find that intransigent Christian Americans and trolls, again, most of whom tend to be American, just sabotage these places. They seem terrified about engaging with alternative ideas and discourses and unable to learn from much older and wiser cultures from around the world.

Very adolescent. Oh well, back to my newspaper.

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

Mr. Rehill - "They seem terrified about engaging with alternative ideas and discourses and unable to learn from much older and wiser cultures from around the world."

Now if that isn't pure arrogance, then pigs can fly to the moon. America has been bailing out these "much older and wiser cultures" for many years now...from their "wisdom" I assume.

I looked at the link, but did not find the quote from your post above, Mr. Rehill, that I was looking for. Would you please be so kind as to post it? Please keep in mind that most foot-soldiers do not get fed enough info to decide for themselves what is justified and what is not...they are given orders to follow, and that is all. If they feel that there is something wrong with those orders then the course of action to follow is to report it to their superiors. If they don't get a satisfactory response, I would then suggest resignation. They could always leave the country as well if necessary...they don't have to stay there and follow orders that they don't want to follow...it's their choice. Could be the 13 year old girl carried (or had carried) a bomb...much younger kids in Vietnam were guilty of just that, and killed many people as a result. The sad part is that it is the adults and culture that create kids who are ready to sacrifice their lives...the result is that life itself is not valued, which is a terrible way to start one out.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

Conal Rehill · Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 26

Look, I'm sorry, but you are simply talking rubbish. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume ignorance rather than stupidity.

The United nations really must do something to prevent you people from becoming over-active in a world you simply don't have the intelligence to understand.

You really are the most irritating people on earth.

Good day to you, sir