Dutch Politicians in Hiding After van Gogh Murder

[antman37]

dear mr. galmin this article from the president of the american geographical society might interest you



Geographic Ignorance Drives Foreign Policy



If I could choose a single fact to illustrate the lofty heights to which geography has risen in previous times, it would be the following: The American Geographical Society (AGS) was responsible for drafting President Woodrow Wilson's "Fourteen Points," certainly one of the most important and best-known policy statements of the previous century (Smith, 2003).



However, that momentous event has been so thoroughly forgotten by society and even by geographers themselves that I, current AGS president, didn't know about it until a few weeks ago. But what do these startling facts reveal about the state of geography's past, present and future?



From Lofty Heights



On the eve of World War I, Wilson knew the United States was poised to become a world power. The Great War and subsequent peace would be his nation's debut on the global stage. He relished the role of leading man, but who would play his supporting cast?



The scholar in him realized that his own government lacked the requisite expertise, knowledge and experience. For 140 years, America had practiced isolationism from world affairs, and no one in government--not even the officers and analysts of the State Department or Military Intelligence-- was ready to face sophisticated European negotiators.



The problem was geographic ignorance, and Wilson turned to AGS for help. He did so tentatively at first, placing top aides in charge. Soon, however, he relied almost exclusively on AGS Director Isaiah Bowman to lead "The Inquiry's" 150 scholars who represented geography and many other disciplines. Their task was to collect and analyze the information that would be needed to establish a "scientific" peace at war's end.



When Wilson and the American delegation left for Paris aboard the USS George Washington, Bowman sailed with them. Initially, he was supposed to report to the commissioners through official channels in the Department of State. On arrival, however, Bowman pulled off a bureaucratic coup, and Wilson decreed that analysts from the Department of State, Military Intelligence and Central Bureau of Statistics all would report through Bowman.



By late January 1919, AGS geographers and cartographers, led by Mark Jefferson, turned out more than 300 maps per week based on geographic analysis of the Inquiry's massive data collections covering language, ethnicity, resources, historic boundaries and other pertinent information. America's delegation became the envy of Versailles.



To Abysmal Depths



Now compare 2003 with 1917. The common thread is geographic ignorance. Wilson recognized it; modern politicians do not.



America's foreign policy suffers from profound geographic ignorance about the rest of the world, especially the Muslim world. Many people are fond of pointing out the president's gaffs or the opposing party's gaffs, but no one holds a corner on the market for geographic ignorance--it's bipartisan; pervasive among politicians, analysts, journalists and voters alike; and it's worldwide.



Hardly anyone in the West truly understands the East and vice versa. They're as ignorant of us as we are of them, largely due to exaggerated images broadcast by our own popular culture. Ignorance of allies and adversaries drives the foreign policies of all nations, not just America. Sadly, geographic ignorance today is the principal determinant of international relations, and no administration since World War II has known where to turn for answers.

[antman37]

dear mr rononguitar



im afraid mr galmin and mr questionnaire are correct that you are a propagandist and you get your 'facts' from right-wing propaganda websites



having said that mr questionnaire can be far too rude about this although he is right and i can understand how frustrated he must get because he knows that the websites you use are full of crap



dear mr dreamtone7



im afraid mr galmin is right that you seem to know very little about international affairs and your posts dont seem to make sense



mr. questionnaire is right that the rise of evangelical christianity in america is very dangerous although he does not criticize extremist islam enough because that is dangerous too



i wish that all people who believe in god would go and live on the moon

[Galmin]

antman37



Dreamtone7 is one of the few US Americans on this board who knows pretty much about foreign affairs. His objection to my posts have not so much to do with content, but semantics, even though I have thoroughly explained it.



This can be because of different reasons.

A, he likes detail bellybutton-gazing more than the larger picture.

B, he wants to derail the topic and save Ron's face.

D, he watches fox news.

[Galmin]

Quote:

---

"War on Terror" is a term that generally reflects upon Iraq, not Afghanistan.

---

This caught my eye again.



The "War on Terror" does not reflect upon Afghanistan? Why then, for the love of god, did we invade? It was not because the Taliban harboured Bin Laden and refused to turn him over?



Why was it then?





WE ARE ALL EARS!! TELL US!!!!!!!!

[DreamTone7]

I didn't say it didn't reflect on Afghanistan, Galmin. What I said is that it generally reflects on Iraq as opposed to Afghanistan. This is different than saying it has nothing to do with Afghanistan.



BTW, the letter "C", not "D", comes after the letter "B"...at least in the English alphabet.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

[antman37]

"This can be because of different reasons.

A, he likes detail bellybutton-gazing more than the larger picture.

B, he wants to derail the topic and save Ron's face.

D, he watches fox news."



haha yes



pedantic people who talk about detail and meanings of words all the time are usually afraid of the larger picture and want to stall the argument



it is difficult to save the face of mr rononguitar because he gets his facts from websites that have no credibility and its obvious he has not read up on the subjects he sounds off about mr questionaire was right about that



when i was a university student these websites were off-limits but unfortunately its anything goes in cyber-space and anyone with an html editor can put up a website



now the right-wing evangelicals are not just confined to the bible-belt in america and they can spread their ideas around the world easier and the zionists and the islamic extremists can also join in



because of this do you think that cyber-space is a dangerous place for younger people with impressionable minds?

[Galmin]

Quote:

---

I didn't say it didn't reflect on Afghanistan, Galmin. What I said is that it generally reflects on Iraq as opposed to Afghanistan. This is different than saying it has nothing to do with Afghanistan.

---

Yes. You also said:

Quote:

---

Meanwhile, Galmin points to Hollands involvement in the war in Iraq as an attempt to disprove that they would be "soft" on terrorists...meanwhile, in another thread, claims are made that Iraq had nothing to do with terrorists.

---

Here you are stating that I claim that "Iraq had nothing to do with terrorists", as you know, this is as close as you come to quote me saying ' the invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with the war on terror'.



Ergo: you know that I claim that the invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with the war on terror. I made this claim several times since Iraq was invaded. Therefore it must be clear to you that I regard the invasion of Iraq as something else than 'War on Terror', right?



Thus, when I refer to The Netherlands engagement in the 'War on Terror', I must mean their involvement in "Operation Enduring Freedom", clear so far?



Once you understand my position on the invasion of Iraq (and your post makes perfectly clear that you at least have read it), the point you were trying to make is utterly moot. Regardless of special-semantic-treatment for US Citizens of the Republican kind.



Now, can we get back to topic?



Starting here:

Ron posted:

Quote:

---

Hmmm...the Dutch believed appeasing terrorists would be a good idea. Well, it probably sounded like a good idea at the time...

---

[Galmin]

Quote:

---

Now when there, even at your end, cannot be any doubt about the semantics in my post, you and Ron (Experto Nederlands) are free to address the topic. I am however, quite convinced that this will never happen.

---

[Galmin]

Q E D

[Sterling30]

Here in the US, "The War on Terror" is most closely associated with the invasion of Iraq...





Actually, most Americans I meet are quite discusted with our invasion in Iraq and the senseless loss of lives for American troops as well as Iraqis. Most seem to feel it completely unnessary and I can't think of a single person I've met who has ever been enthusiatic about that war.



So no, most American do not associate the invasion of Iraq with the war on terror, they do often associate it with Viet Nam though.

[DreamTone7]

I think you need to get out more, Sterling...or at least get into the company of those not in a certain circle or of a type of friend. Broaden your understanding of people, you know.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

[Rev9Volts]

yes sterling.... i know lots who are that way... i know lots who say we should have done it in 91 with daddy bush...

[Rev9Volts]

Personally I think the Dutch government should do to him what he did to the other guy... but then again I was (proudly) born in Texas...

[Sterling30]

Ummm, you'd be amazed how wide the spectrum is of people I meet who come from every walk of life..., and how freely they express their views on this matter. I'm not dropping any names but their opinions carry alot of weight and not one I've met is happy with current events in Iraq.



Sorry kiddies, 1/4th of the money wasted on this senseless war invested in rebuilding that country rather than destroying it would have made Americans very welcome guests in Iraq at the moment with no casualties on either side..., you just can't get it though.

[Galmin]

Quote:

---

I think you need to get out more, Sterling...or at least get into the company of those not in a certain circle or of a type of friend. Broaden your understanding of people, you know.

---

Interresting welcome tactics there, DT. Is it safe to say that you do not know the first thing about Sterling30?

Quote:

---

yes sterling.... i know lots who are that way... i know lots who say we should have done it in 91 with daddy bush...

---

Rev, the two positions are far from mutually exclusive.