Big, Fat, Ugly, LYING White Man

Seismic Anamoly · Joined: 22 Aug 2002 Posts: 3039

Quote:

Fifty-nine Lies in Fahrenheit 911

by David Kopel

Independence Institute

13952 Denver West Parkway • Suite 400 • Golden, Colorado 80401-3119

www.IndependenceInstitute.org • 303-279-6536 • 303-279-4176 fax

If all you know is what the mainstream media tell you, then you are living in a world of illusions. But you can’t free your mind if you merely replace one set of manipulative illusions with another set of manipulative illusions. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a twisted, dishonest, paranoid, and hateful fantasy. Learn the facts, and make up your own mind.

The list below is a summary of a much longer report, which is

available for free at www.davekopel.org. The report also discusses many other issues about the movie.

There are lots of good reasons why people have chosen to vote against (or for) the re-election of George Bush. And there are lots of good reasons why patriotic Americans have decided to oppose (or support) the war in Iraq. One thing that all the good reasons have in common is that they are based on facts. In a democracy, we should try to convince our fellow citizens with facts and logical reasoning. To manipulate people with frauds and propaganda is to attack democracy itself.

1. The Gore “victory” rally isn’t celebrating a Florida win. It

was held before the polls had even opened.

2. Like all the other networks, Fox mistakenly said that Gore

had won in Florida. The first network to retract the Florida

mistake was CBS, not Fox.

3. A 6-month study by a consortium of major newspapers

shows that Bush would have won the Florida recount under

any of the terms which Gore sought in his lawsuits.

4. Investigation by the Palm Beach Post and others shows

that race was not a reason why election officials mistakenly

disqualified some voters because they were incorrectly

thought to have felony convictions.

5. Bush’s Presidency before 9/11 was not in serious trouble.

No commentator said that he looked like a lame-duck president.

Congress had passed his #1 bill (the tax cut) and was

on the way to passing his #2 bill (the education bill). The

scene at the end of the movie in which Bush tells a rich audience

“I call you my base,” was from an October 2000 charity

fund-raiser. Both Gore and Bush spoke at the fund-raiser

and, as is the custom at the fund-raiser, made fun of themselves.

6. “In his first eight months in office before September

11th, George W. Bush was on vacation, according to the

Washington Post, forty-two percent of the time.” As the

Washington Post reported, the figure includes weekends, and

includes time in “vacation locations” such as Camp David,

where Bush was working—as when he met with Tony Blair.

7. In the golf course scene (about the middle of the movie),

Bush had just heard about a terrorist attack on Israel. He

called the press together to make a quick statement condemning

the terrorism against Israel. He was not speaking

about attacks on the United States.

8. There is no evidence that Bush did not read the Aug. 6,

2001 Presidential Daily Briefing about al Qaeda.

9. He never claimed that the title’s “vagueness” was an

excuse for not reading it.

10. The Briefing did not say “said that Osama bin Laden was

planning to attack America by hijacking airplanes.” It said

that the FBI has “not been able to corroborate” such a threat.

11. The Saudis left the U.S. only after air travel was opened

for the general public.

12. According to Richard Clarke and the September 11

Commission, Clarke personally approved the Saudi departures,

and the decision went no higher in the chain of command.

13. Moore lied to a TV reporter in claiming that Fahrenheit

discloses Clarke’s decision to the audience. Clarke called the

Saudi exit material in Fahrenheit a “mistake” by Moore.

14. Contrary to what Fahrenheit claims, the September 11

Commission found that many Saudis were asked “detailed

questions” before being allowed to leave.

15. James Bath did not invest bin Laden family money

in Bush’s energy company Arbusto. He invested his own

money.

16. Bath’s name was blacked-out from an Alabama National

Guard record released by the White House—as required by

federal law, which prohibits the disclosure of health-related

personal information.

17. Prince Bandar has way too much influence on the U.S.

government, as Fahrenheit shows, but American coddling of

the Saudi tyranny is a long-standing bi-partisan tradition, not

a Bush invention.

18. Harken Energy: Bush only sold the stock after company

lawyers told him it was OK.

19. The reason that Bush “beat the rap” was because there

was no evidence he had engaged in insider trading.

20. The Carlyle Group is not a Bush playground. Many Bush

opponents are investors, including George Soros.

21. The Bush administration dealt Carlyle a huge financial

blow by canceling the Crusader missile, one of the few weapons

cancellations in the Bush administration.

22. The bin Ladens dropped out of Carlyle before the stock

sale. Of the 1.4 billion that the Saudis invested in companies

with Bush connections, the vast majority of the money was

invested in Carlyle before George H.W. Bush joined the firm.

23. Craig Unger claims that the Saudis have $860 billion

invested in the U.S. The figure appears in his book House of

Bush, House of Saud, but neither of Unger’s cited sources

support such a large figure.

24. Moore claims that the Saudis “own 7% of America.”

But even if you believe Unger’s fictitious $860 billion figure,

the Saudis own only about 7% of total foreign investment

in America, which is over 10 trillion dollars. Only if all of

America were owned by foreigners could Moore’s claim be

correct.

25. The Saudi embassy does not receive special protection.

It is not the only foreign embassy which is guarded by the

U.S. Secret Service. An international treaty signed by the

U.S. requires the U.S. to protect any embassy which asks for

protection.

26. Moore’s insinuation that Bush runs U.S. foreign policy

according to Saudi instructions is contradicted by the

Afghanistan invasion (which toppled the Taliban regime

which the Saudis strongly supported), and by the Iraq War

(which the Saudis opposed, in part because Iraqi oil will

compete with Saudi oil).

27. As Governor of Texas, Bush never met with Taliban representatives.

28. The proposed Unocal pipeline was supported by the

Clinton administration, but Unocal abandoned the pipeline

idea in 1998.

29. The new Afghani government has signed a protocol to

build a pipeline, but it is an entirely different pipeline, in a

location hundreds of miles distant from the Unocal proposal.

30. Construction has not begun on the new pipeline.

Although Moore claims that “Enron stood to benefit” from

the pipeline, Enron has never had any participation in either

pipeline.

31. The Bush administration did not “welcome” Taliban diplomats in March 2001, but instead condemned them for failing to hand over Osama bin Laden.

32. Despite Moore’s pose in the movie, he opposed the

Afghanistan War, and—in December 2002—claimed that

Osama bin Laden might be innocent.

33. In claiming that the Afghanistan invasion was a mere

ruse to protect the Saudis, Moore omits the results of liberation in Afghanistan: destruction of al Qaeda training camps, the creation of free elections, more freedom for women, and the homecoming of 1.5 million refugees from the Taliban.

34. The various quotes about Bush administration cooperation

with the September 11 Commission have been resequenced

to create a false impression.

In July 2003, Chairman Kean complained about lack of

cooperation. In February 2004, Bush said that the White

House had given extraordinary cooperation. Kean agreed,

and praised the White House for providing “unprecedented”

access.

35. John Ashcroft didn’t really lose a Senate election to a

“dead guy.” Mel Carnahan died in a plane crash a few weeks

before the election, and the Missouri Governor had promised

to appoint Carnahan’s widow Jean Carnahan if voters

pulled the lever for Mel Carnahan.

36. The FBI did not “know” about al Qaeda suspects who

were attending flight training schools. The information was

never passed above the level of one field office.

37. Ashcroft did not cut overall counter-terrorism funding.

He only proposed a one-year cut in a particular program that

already had two years of unspent money.

38. Rep. Porter Goss says he has an “800 number,” and the

Fahrenheit caption says “He’s lying.” Goss does have a tollfree number, although the prefix is 877.

39. Moore says Saddam’s Iraq “had never murdered a single

American citizen.” In fact, Saddam paid for terrorist bombers

in Israel who murdered Americans, along with people of

other nationalities. Saddam also sheltered the American-killing

terrorist Abu Nidal, and the bomb-maker for the 1993

World Trade Center bombings.

40. In addition, Saddam ordered assassination attempts

against former President Bush and against U.S. diplomats in

the Philippines.

41. Moore claims that the Saddam regime “never threatened

to attack the United States.” In fact, in 1997 the regime

publicly ordered: “American and British interests, embassies,

and naval ships in the Arab region should be the targets of

military operations and commando attacks by Arab political

forces.” On the first anniversary of September 11, Saddam's

regime called for suicide attacks on Americans.

42. Moore claims that there was no connection between

Iraq and al Qaeda. In fact, there is an extensive record of

collaboration although—as the September 11 Commission

announced—there is no proof that Saddam participated

beforehand in al Qaeda attacks on America.

43. Fahrenheit shows Condoleezza Rice saying, “Oh, indeed

there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11.” The

audience laughs derisively. Here is what Rice really said on

Nov. 28, 2003:

"Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened

on 9/11. It’s not that Saddam Hussein was somehow himself

and his regime involved in 9/11, but, if you think about

what caused 9/11, it is the rise of ideologies of hatred that

lead people to drive airplanes into buildings in New York.

This is a great terrorist, international terrorist network that

is determined to defeat freedom. It has perverted Islam

from a peaceful religion into one in which they call on it

for violence. And they’re all linked. And Iraq is a central

front because, if and when, and we will, we change the

nature of Iraq to a place that is peaceful and democratic

and prosperous in the heart of the Middle East, you will

begin to change the Middle East...."

44. Moore portrays pre-liberation Iraq as a happy nation

of kite-flying and weddings. In fact, a sixth of the population

had fled Saddam’s tyranny. The United Nations and

Amnesty International condemned “the systematic, widespread and extremely grave violations of human rights and of international humanitarian law by the Government of

Iraq, resulting in an all-pervasive repression and oppression

sustained by broad-based discrimination and widespread terror.’’

45. The only Iraqi casualties which Moore shows are civilians,

although military casualties far outnumbered civilian.

46. When showing pictures of buildings being blown up,

Moore does not reveal that many of them were military

buildings, and civilians were never allowed anywhere near

them.

47. A humorous sequence making fun of tiny countries in the

Iraq liberation Coalition does not even mention the major

countries in the Coalition, such as the U.K., Australia, Italy,

and Japan.

Not a deceit, but mean-spirited and exploitive: The footage

of the funeral of U.S. Air Force Maj. Gregory Stone at

Arlington National Cemetery appears without his family's

permission, and over their vehement objection. Major Stone

strongly believed in the Iraq mission, as does his family.

The footage of Massachusetts National Guardsman Peter

Damon, who is undergoing therapy at Walter Reed Army

Medical Center is also used without his permission.

48. Despite Moore’s claims, American media have not been

mindlessly supportive of the Iraq war. For example, Peter

Jennings has been extremely critical. The evidence that

Moore offers to portray Jennings as a war supporter is a clip

of Jennings reporting in April 2003 that Saddam’s army had

collapsed—which was true.

49. The scene of American soldiers making fun of a man

underneath a sheet is not torture of a prisoner of war. They

are making fun of a drunk who passed out in the street.

50. Moore reports that Bush proposed closing some

Veteran’s hospitals. But he also proposed opening other

veteran’s hospitals.

51. Bush once opposed renewing a special bonus of $75/

month for soldiers in “imminent danger zones.” Moore

claims that Bush proposed cutting combat soldiers’ pay by

1/3; but a soldier's pay and benefits is over $27,000 per year,

even at low enlisted grades.

52. While making false claims about a Bush pay cut, Moore

omits the fact that Bush sought and won a 3.7% military pay

raise in 2003.

53. Moore claims that only one Congressman has a child in

Iraq. Actually, two do. (Democratic Senator Tim Johnson of

S.D., and Republican Rep. Duncan Hunter of California.)

Also, John Ashcroft has a son on a naval ship in the Persian

Gulf.

54. Fahrenheit deceptively cut the footage of Rep. Mark

Kennedy to make it look like Kennedy rebuffed Moore’s

request to help enlist Congressional children. In fact,

Kennedy said it was a good idea, and offered to help.

55. Fahrenheit shows Rep. Michael Castle walking past

Moore. But Rep. Castle is childless.

56. Based on Census Bureau data, Congressional families are

more likely than other families to have children serving in

Iraq.

57. Moore calls Flint, Michigan, “my hometown.” In fact,

he grew up in Davison, a much wealthier and much whiter

suburb.

58. In Fahrenheit, Moore pretends to support our troops.

But in fact, he supports the enemy in Iraq-the coalition of

Saddam loyalists, al Qaeda operatives, and terrorists controlled by Iran or Syria-who are united in their desire to

murder Iraqis, and to destroy any possibility of democracy in

Iraq. Here is what Moore said on April 14, 2004, about the

forces who are killing Americans and trying to impose totalitarian rule on Iraq: “The Iraqis who have risen up against

the occupation are not ‘insurgents’ or ‘terrorists’ or ‘The

Enemy.’ They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and

their numbers will grow—and they will win.” Do you really

think that someone who wants Iraq to be ruled by Islamist or

Ba’athist tyranny, and who deliberately kills innocent civilians

with car bombs, is like the American Minutemen?

59. As reported in the trade journal Screen Daily, affiliates

of the Iranian and Syrian-backed terrorist group Hezbollah

are promoting Fahrenheit 9/11, and Moore’s Middle East

distributor, Front Row, is accepting the terrorist assistance

“In terms of marketing the film, Front Row is getting a boost

from organizations related to Hezbollah which have rung up

from Lebanon to ask if there is anything they can do to support the film. And although [Front Row’s Managing Director

Giancarlo] Chacra says he and his company feel strongly that

Fahrenheit is not anti-American, but anti-Bush, ‘we can’t go

against these organizations as they could strongly boycott the film in Lebanon and Syria.’” (NancyTartaglione, “Fahrenheit to be first doc released theatrically in Middle East,” Screen Daily.com, June 9, 2004. The story is discussed in Samantha Ellis, “Fahrenheit 9/11 gets help offer from Hezbollah,” The Guardian (London), June 17, 2004.) Slate.com (6/24/04) followed up on the story, and reported: “Gianluca Chacra, the managing director of Front Row Entertainment, the movie’s distributor in the United Arab

Emirates, confirms that Lebanese student members of

Hezbollah ‘have asked us if there’s any way they could support the film.’ Chacra was unfazed, even excited, about their offer. ‘Having the support of such an entity in Lebanon is

quite significant for that market and not at all controversial.

I think it’s quite natural.’”

Do you think it’s patriotic to accept help from a terrorist

organization which has killed and kidnapped hundreds of

Americans, which works with al Qaeda and other terrorists,

and which is currently aiding the killing of American soldiers

and Iraqi civilians? American patriotism can include presenting

honest arguments against a particular American military

policy. Hateriotism is the spreading of vicious lies against

American soldiers and in favor of tyrants.

It’s not unpatriotic to criticize a war or particular wartime

policies. But how many patriots do you know who take aid

from terrorists who kill Americans?

This essay comes from the Independence Institute, a thinktank in Colorado which is founded on the principles of the

Declaration of Independence (www.independenceinstitute.

org).

The author, Dave Kopel, is a life-long Democrat who

endorsed and voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. He supports

some but not all aspects of the current war on terror.

Keep spreading the Horse Manure, Mooreon....it's working!!

Quote:

Latest Polls

AP Poll 9/10/2004

Bush 51, Kerry 46 (likely voters)

Bush 53, Kerry 41 (registered voters)

CBS News 9/9/2004

Bush 49, Kerry 42

Rasmussen 9/9/2004

Bush 48, Kerry 46

ABC News 9/10/2004

Bush 52, Kerry 42

Gallup 9/5/2004

Bush 52, Kerry 45

Anybody that paid to go see this Conglomeration of Crap....

.....I got some property I wanna show you as soon as the tide goes out.

:aua

Edited by: Seismic Anamoly at: 9/11/04 7:50

questionnaire · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 640

i2i.org/

One of the reasons why nobody has answered your dumb post might be that they have checked out the so-called 'independent think-tank' where you got that pile of drivel you just posted. See link above.

It is, of course, a wacko extreme right-wing free-market arm-the-population tax-dodging neo-con survivalist looney bin with no affiliation whatsoever to bona fide academic research institutions.

Just the sort of wacko rubbish that simpletons like you would believe, Seismo.

I notice the FBI doesn't close down these sites, only the anti-war sites, many of which are supported and endorsed by genuine intellectuals and researchers. That says a lot about the condition of your country at the moment. And about you.

Seismic Anamoly · Joined: 22 Aug 2002 Posts: 3039

Quote:

....your dumb post....

Quote:

...simpleton...

Well, well.

Mr. Hall.

Alligator Mouth and Hummingbird Ass.

Baiting the hook.

OK...I'll take a bite.

I'm still here waiting for you to come cram me up my exhaust pipe.

But you won't.

You're a coward.

You go on bulletin boards to insult people and make yourself feel like a badass because they would break your fucking neck if you did it in person.

Just as sure as the Sun rises in the morning.

You say you're 6 feet, 220 pounds.

Inside, you're 3 feet, 60. And the 60 is all because of the $hit you're packed full of.

If you want to disagree with and criticize what I say, fine. I couldn't care less.

When you insult me, come do it to my face. I'm sure I speak for others here when I say that, also. And you always regulate the thread down into juvenilistic, infantile insults hurled at others, because that's what you are.

A baby with a diaper full of crap.

You already chicken-shitted out on me once by claiming your "university" couldn't afford to send you to the conference you had bragged so about attending to deliver one of your holier-than-thou speeches here in the USA.

But you wimped out when you knew I would be there waiting for you.

Pussy.

Come on....be a man. Come beat my Ass.

You can't. Even if you tried.

And you won't.

Because you're nothing but a sniveling coward with a vocabulary.

However, if you do decide to come, bring that fatass ugly wife of yours with you....some of my "redneck" buddies will show her what a real orgasm is while I beat the shit out of you. I know she's never had one.

And leave those coke-bottle bottom glasses of yours at home; I'd hate to break them while I'm rearranging those beady little eyeballs of yours.

Old bald-headed, prune-faced, pipsqueek pencil dick.

Now....get out your dictionary and cut loose...and give us every excuse in the book why you can't come.

And threaten to sue me, too, just for good measure...get your lady-friend lawyer at your "university" to do it for you. Just like the little coward you are.

And then, when Thanksgiving holidays roll around, I might just hop one of the KC-135's flying out of Montgomery ANG base in Meridian bound for the Iraq theatre via England and try out this new baseball bat I got all over your ugly carcass.

Now that would be fun.

And a piece of fucking cake.

Maybe then your testicles will drop.

Though I doubt it.

Old douchebag.

Edited by: Seismic Anamoly at: 10/15/04 4:28

ilikepie2 · Joined: 08 Oct 2003 Posts: 371

dude, i think you're WAYYY over the line here with this post. i mean, the two of you disagree politically and that's cool. could you maybe cool it with the talk of violence and rape? i mean really?

Bud Bennett

homepage :

stained glass :

Seismic Anamoly · Joined: 22 Aug 2002 Posts: 3039

You think?

Think whatever you want.

I couldn't care less.

Civil disagreements are cool.

It's when people like Hall degrade them into nothing more than an opportunity to insult anything and everything about the other parties' intelligence, family, heritage....the list goes on and on....that it becomes personal with me. And without fail, he does it within every single thread he becomes involved with.

You may enjoy being constantly insulted and belittled because of your beliefs. Good for you.

Personally, I don't.

And I'll deal with it my way.

ilikepie2 · Joined: 08 Oct 2003 Posts: 371

amazing......... somehow that wasn't the response i was hoping for.

Bud Bennett

homepage :

stained glass :

questionnaire · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 640

"Well, well.

Mr. Hall.

Alligator Mouth and Hummingbird Ass.

Baiting the hook.

OK...I'll take a bite.

I'm still here waiting for you to come cram me up my exhaust pipe.

But you won't.

You're a coward.

You go on bulletin boards to insult people and make yourself feel like a badass because they would break your fucking neck if you did it in person.

Just as sure as the Sun rises in the morning.

You say you're 6 feet, 220 pounds.

Inside, you're 3 feet, 60. And the 60 is all because of the $hit you're packed full of.

If you want to disagree with and criticize what I say, fine. I couldn't care less.

When you insult me, come do it to my face. I'm sure I speak for others here when I say that, also. And you always regulate the thread down into juvenilistic, infantile insults hurled at others, because that's what you are.

A baby with a diaper full of crap.

You already chicken-shitted out on me once by claiming your "university" couldn't afford to send you to the conference you had bragged so about attending to deliver one of your holier-than-thou speeches here in the USA.

But you wimped out when you knew I would be there waiting for you.

Pussy.

Come on....be a man. Come beat my Ass.

You can't. Even if you tried.

And you won't.

Because you're nothing but a sniveling coward with a vocabulary.

However, if you do decide to come, bring that fatass ugly wife of yours with you....some of my "redneck" buddies will show her what a real orgasm is while I beat the shit out of you. I know she's never had one.

And leave those coke-bottle bottom glasses of yours at home; I'd hate to break them while I'm rearranging those beady little eyeballs of yours.

Old bald-headed, prune-faced, pipsqueek pencil dick.

Now....get out your dictionary and cut loose...and give us every excuse in the book why you can't come.

And threaten to sue me, too, just for good measure...get your lady-friend lawyer at your "university" to do it for you. Just like the little coward you are.

And then, when Thanksgiving holidays roll around, I might just hop one of the KC-135's flying out of Montgomery ANG base in Meridian bound for the Iraq theatre via England and try out this new baseball bat I got all over your ugly carcass.

Now that would be fun.

And a piece of fucking cake.

Maybe then your testicles will drop.

Though I doubt it.

Old douchebag."

- Seismo

Yeah, I ridicule you and your stupid right-wing ideas. I have NEVER ridiculed your family, and would never do do.

You really think I cancelled my ASC visit to Nashville because of you? My university complained about the cost, you numbskull.

The "stuff you up the exhaust-pipe" remark was a joke, everybody could see that. But your nastiness is no joke, is it? That post was just what I want out of you - pornographic, excessively intimidating and violent, hateful, puerile and stupid. In fact, entirely representative of the people who support Bush and corporate-American imperialism. It just proves every point that I've made on this board. Threatening to fly over the ocean and inflict serious physical damage on me with a baseball bat? Just like Ann Coulter threatening liberals with execution, eh? Oh well, I suppose I'm getting off lightly compared with the millions you've blown to pieces or fried with high explosives and napalm. My daughter just came back from a visit to Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam. As with North Korea, do you know that you virtually carpet-bombed those countries to complete destruction? No wonder they're terrified of you.

And they let you teach schoolkids.

All I have to do now is point people to your post so they can see EXACTLY what you are. The other right-wingers on the board are a bit more controlled, but they would pull the bomb-levers just as easily as you would.

I hope as many of your fellow-Americans as possible see this. They're not all like you. I'm convinced that the vast majority of Americans are decent people, and seeing this will make them think twice about who they vote for - and who they vote with.

Seismic Anamoly · Joined: 22 Aug 2002 Posts: 3039

Quote:

You really think I cancelled my ASC visit to Nashville because of you?

Yep.

And whenever you're ready to have your Kandy-Ass whipped, I'll be here for you.

But you'll never be Man enough.

Old Retard.

questionnaire · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 640

Idiot. Just shows how utterly wrong most of your beliefs are.

Just as a matter of interest for the other board members, the 'Independence Institute', the site that hosted the article berating Michael Moore is investigated here rightweb.irc-online.org/org/castle.php and it turns out to be yet another loonie right-wing fringe site with no connection to any bona fide academic institution. It's funded and run by the extreme right-wing Coors family, owners of a well-known corporate brewery. So it's corporate-funded, like the rest of the lie-machine that the right-wingers on this board constantly refer to. 'Independent' it ain't.

bbchris

I thought this would be a debate about Michael Moore. Thread locked for lack of productivity and debate.