'CIA prisons:' EU warns members

[Galmin]

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Progress indeed...since the topic of this thread concerns "torture", and there was non mentioned by this individual.

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'this individual' didn't mention it?

[ans]

1. Europe Gets a Head-Pat



Secretary of State Condi Rice gave European critics of the Bush administration's rendition policy a collective "it's for your own good" head-pat this week. Rice asserted U.S. anti-terror operations saved lives, including European ones. This is not likely to calm European upset over secret U.S. snatch-and-grab operations, but does play to the anti-Europe wing of the GOP at home, which is to say, to most of the party.



Rice is quite clearly advancing an ends-justify-the-means argument, which is not at all the question European officials had asked the State Department. The unanswered question involved the extent to which the U.S. had used secret detention centers in Eastern Europe, if at all, and what kinds of things went on at those locations. Any zap-zap or glow stick? That kinda thing.



Rice answered without confirming or denying specifics, asserted than no international laws were violated in any event, and insisted that whatever the U.S. did do made the world safer. The likelihood of this answer satisfying leaders in several European capitals is extremely small, but perhaps a very public spat with the Euros is exactly what the Bush administration craves right now.



www.csmonitor.com/2005/12...-usfp.html

[DreamTone7]

"...but perhaps a very public spat with the Euros is exactly what the Bush administration craves right now."



I wouldn't mind it...sometimes it does relationships good to clear the air. Judging by the attitudes of some of the "Euros" on this board, methinks it's probably overdue.



As for al-Masri, I'd be interested to know what he did to warrant these "beatings" (whatever that consists of...the media leaving it open to personal interpretation). Of course it's unfortunate, but mistakes are going to be made where people are involved...it's human nature. The only way to avoid making mistakes is to do nothing...which is what much of europe is up to right now.

[bitwhys]

maybe one or two of them would be happy to invade something but all the knackered, oil-rich lead pipe cinches are taken these days.

[Galmin]

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As for al-Masri, I'd be interested to know what he did to warrant these "beatings"

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I'd take a wild guess he did the same thing that warranted him being spirited away to an Afghanistan prison for an unspeciefied period of time and some nice torture and waterboarding: he had the outrageousness to chose to have a name similar to that of a sought for terrorist.

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Of course it's unfortunate, but mistakes are going to be made where people are involved...it's human nature.

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Making sure the agents involved can spell would have sufficed to avoid this particular mistake.

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The only way to avoid making mistakes is to do nothing...which is what much of europe is up to right now

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Wrong. Europe has apprehended and tried more terrorists than the US is likely ever to do. To violate international law and snatch someone away on a hunch based on a wrong name is simply INCOMPETENCE. In the civilized world, the incompetent would have cleaned his/her desk by now. There would have been reason to doublecheck this case (if merely to making sure of the identity) before acting, something that would have avoided the mistake.



See? There are other ways to diminish mistakes: doing a good job!

Based on this rendition, it cannot be all that hard.

[DreamTone7]

Galmin - "Europe has apprehended and tried more terrorists than the US is likely ever to do."



Just curious...where do you get your numbers (both european and American)?

[Galmin]

Apart from that it is a truth universally acknowledged, I get my info from official sources:

www.gao.gov

www.state.gov

Edited by: Galmin  at: 12/7/05 16:59

[DreamTone7]

Ah-ah-ah...we are talking global terrorists, now...not ones internal to the country. Want to rethink your position?

[NRKofOver]

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we are talking global terrorists, now...not ones internal to the country

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Can you define the difference?



If I had to guess I would say Tim McVeigh was an 'internal' terrorist but the 9/11 guys were not? Do you have to have citizenship or just residency to be 'internal'?



If a Mexican national goes on a killing spree after living in the US for 10 years is he a global terrorist or an internal terrorist?

My music for the disenchanted masses

[Galmin]

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Want to rethink your position?

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Nope

[DreamTone7]

NRK - We could define it as "theatre of operations". "Global terrorist" McVeigh is not.



Galmin - How many global terrorists were arrested in europe last year? Let's limit it to EU countries, for now.

[Galmin]

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Galmin - "Europe has apprehended and tried more terrorists than the US is likely ever to do."

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[DreamTone7]

A bit dodgey, eh Galmin?

[Galmin]

Just making sure you are aware of what we're talking about, DT



The US have, since 9/11, convicted 14 linked to international terrorism, 9 of them with defenite Al Qaida links. During the same time, EU countries has convicted 43.



I will not acknowledge statistics based on students who has payed other student to write their English exam, been arrested for terrorism because of that and fined. Big case in NH, 60 convictions, sold as a terror cases. No link.

[MIKE BURN]

This just in today from Europe:

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http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/12/09/spain.terror.arrests/index.html



7 terrorist suspects held in Spain



Friday, December 9, 2005 Posted: 1012 GMT (1812 HKT)



MADRID, Spain (CNN) -- Spanish authorities have arrested seven people suspected of financing the activities of Islamic terror groups, a Civil Guard spokesman says.



The raids took place in the Costa del Sol region of southern Spain in the cities Malaga, Torremolinos and Marbella.



Last month, Spanish police arrested 10 suspects wanted for allegedly providing logistical support, including financing, to radical Islamic groups.



Spain's Interior Ministry linked the suspects from the November arrests to an Algerian-based radical Islamic organization, the Salafist Group for Call and Combat, which the Ministry described as the Algerian branch of al Qaeda.



The ministry, in a statement, said last month that Spanish police had found links in the operation to Algerian-born individuals residing in Germany, the Netherlands, Britain and Denmark and that Spanish police had contacted authorities in those four countries to provide information about the investigation.



The alleged terrorist financing was carried out through drug trafficking, forged credit cards and property and vehicle theft, the ministry said.



If was not immediately clear if there was any connection between the suspects arrested in November and December.

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