Joined: 08 Nov 2001 Posts: 4825 Location: Frankfurt / Europe
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:56 am Post subject: The terror arrived in London...
10:47 a.m.: Home Secretary Charles Clarke says London blasts cause "terrible injuries"
10:46 Police say serious casualties in London explosions, but no deaths confirmed
10:46 Witness to Britain's Sky News says second blast heard in Tavistock Square.
10:45 Police sources say a bomb is suspected in London bus explosion.
10:33 Police confirm at least three explosions on buses in central London.
10:25 Police confirm explosion on bus in central London in the area around Russell Square.
10:24 Scotland Yard says "multiple explosions" rock London.
10:14 News agencies report a bus has exploded in central London.
09:53 Metronet says the entire London subway network has been shut down.
Police says incidents are reported at the Aldgate station near the Liverpool Street railway terminal, Edgware Road and King's Cross in north London, Old Street in the financial district and Russell Square in central London, near the British Museum.
09:41 London Underground reports a second explosion at a subway station in northwest London.
09:33 Witnesses say London underground says services are suspended after "power surge."
09:27 Metronet, the subway maintenance company, says power surge has caused explosion in London tube station.
09:25 Police say "there are walking wounded" in London's financial district.
09:15 British transport police say a explosion is reported in London's financial district in the area near Liverpool railway station.
Joined: 08 Nov 2001 Posts: 4825 Location: Frankfurt / Europe
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:57 am Post subject: Re: The terror arrived in London...
Quote:Multiple explosions rock London
Initial reports say at least two deaths
Thursday, July 7, 2005 Posted: 1046 GMT (1846 HKT)
LONDON, England (CNN) -- Near simultaneous explosions rocked the London Underground network and at least one bus at the morning rush hour, police said, causing fatalities and prompting officials to shut down the entire underground transport network.
"There have been a number of dreadful incidents across London today," said Home Secretary Charles Clarke, Britain's top law enforcement officer. He said there were "terrible injuries."
Metropolitan Police Commissioner Ian Blair said London had been hit by at least six blasts and there had been many casualties. He urged Londoners not to panic and said it was too early to say what caused the blasts.
UK Prime Minister Tony Blair said he would make a statement on the London explosions from the G8 summit at 1100GMT, his spokesman said.
A White House spokesman said U.S. President George W. Bush was aware of the explosions and had been in briefings with Blair all morning.
Claire Burroughs, spokeswoman for St Mary's Hospital in central London, told CNN the hospital was on "major incident alert."
The Tube blasts at the height of the rush hour on Thursday were initially blamed on a power surge.
But amid the chaos eyewitnesses reported that a packed double decker bus in the Russell Square area had been severely damaged in a blast.
There were media reports that a second bus had been damaged in Tavistock Square. Police told CNN they could not confirm that report.
Describing the Russell Square blast, eyewitness Belinda Seabrook told the UK Press Association she saw an explosion rip through the bus as it approached the Square.
"I was on the bus in front and heard an incredible bang, I turned round and half the double decker bus was in the air," she said.
One Tube passenger told CNN passengers had been packed in smoke-filled carriages "just waiting to die."
It's sad to see now innocent people in London paying the price for having a premier who led their country careless into a war waged by Bush. A unjust war with tenthousands of innocent people killed in Iraq.
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: The terror arrived in London...
Mike, it's right to post important news like this, especially because we have Brits on the board who are either directly or indirectly impacted by this horror.
But I think it's wrong to post political comments on this news here, that's for the "hot-topics/political board". I believe the important thing is to see how our Brit friends (and their family & friends) are doing right now.
But as for terrorist attacks, these thugs have been doing it all around the world a long time before the liberation of Iraq. In fact - just in the US - their 1st attack on the World Trade Center was in 1993.
I think we need to blame the thugs who commit these acts of evil and hold them responsible. To blame the victims, the victim's countries or their leaders is wrong and is not using good judgment.
You will remember the good, innocent people of London went through horrific bombings in the 1940s. It was not the fault of the people or their leaders then - or now.
The disgusting human garbage who did this great evil made a very bad decision and have picked on the wrong people. The Brits are a noble and decent people, but they've never taken sh*t from anybody.
But right now, the people of London their family & friends (and Britian as a whole) should be on our minds. I hope all here are well.
Joined: 08 Nov 2001 Posts: 4825 Location: Frankfurt / Europe
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: The terror arrived in London...
German media report that the people of London are advised by the Police to stay away from Victoria Station at this time - without further details provided. Maybe they found another explosive device or something like that.
People, as such, are to be regarded for their own actions...not those of others. BUT, when a dog or other pet commits acts of atrocity, we generally look at the caretakers of the animal as being responsible...not at the animal itself.
In blaming the US for what the terrorists have done, you have degraded the terrorists to the level of dogs...not to be held responsible for their actions.
What will it take for you to wake up and smell the coffee? Let's hope you don't have to find out.
Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: The terror arrived in London...
Hiya Onoffon -
I'll give you a few reasons why I'd say that reasoning doesn'y make sense to me.
First, you have to consider the fact that Islamist terror has a long history and the terrorists have struck around the world, including in Muslim countries. Even the 9-11 US terrorist attacks in 2001 happened before the Taliban were kicked out of power by the civilized world. In fact, they were only kicked out afterwards for being a safe haven for and sponsor of terrorists.
So, basically, history just doesn't agree with the idea that Islamist terror is something new or is somehow due to present day countries, leaders or any nation's policies.
Quote:Terrorists have always been in the world but they come in all political beliefs - remember right wing terrorist, Timothy McVeigh...
There you mixing apples and oranges, onoffon. Timmy was an individual nutcase. You are correct there have always been (and always will be, I suppose) sociopathic individuals who will act out their criminal psychopathy.
In the 60s-early 70s you had the left-wing nuts making bombs and killing some people. You likely know about such forgettable "revolutionary groups" as the "Symbionese Liberation Army", which was best known for kidnapping heiress Patty Hearst.
Those are the "apples", a few delusional kooks. But they were handled as all terrorists should be - they were imprisoned or killed. The civilised world did not give into their demands.
And you would be hard pressed to find anyone who would say that what those "apples" did was in any way justifiable. If you can find someone who believes it was justifiable, I think we would all agree that s/he is a little - or a lot - nuts.
Okay, so let's take a look at the "oranges".
For them it's not some kind of a 60s hippie or fringe left/right wing lark. It is a constant history, since the 600s A.D. That's what makes Islamist terror the "oranges".
I could give you a rundown, but here's a very good summation from the site JihadWatch.Org.
----------------
"JIHAD IS A CENTRAL DUTY of every Muslim. Modern Muslim theologians have spoken of many things as jihads: the struggle within the soul, defending the faith from critics, supporting its growth and defense financially, even migrating to non-Muslim lands for the purpose of spreading Islam. But in Islamic history and doctrine violent jihad is founded on numerous verses of the Qur'an — most notably, one known in Islamic theology as the "Verse of the Sword": "Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful" (Sura 9:5). Establishing "regular worship" and paying the "poor-due" (zakat) means essentially that they will become Muslim, as these are two of the central responsibilities of every Muslim.
Sahih Bukhari, which Muslims regard as the most trustworthy of all the many collections of traditions of Muhammad, records this statement of the Prophet: "Allah assigns for a person who participates in (holy battles) in Allah's Cause and nothing causes him to do so except belief in Allah and in His Messengers, that he will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr)."
Ibn Khaldun (1332-1406), a pioneering historian and philosopher, was also a legal theorist. In his renowned Muqaddimah, the first work of historical theory, he notes that "in the Muslim community, the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and (the obligation to) convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or by force." In Islam, the person in charge of religious affairs is concerned with "power politics," because Islam is "under obligation to gain power over other nations."
Violent jihad is a constant of Islamic history. The passages quoted above and many others like them form a major element of the motivation of jihad warriors worldwide today. No major Muslim group has ever repudiated the doctrines of armed jihad. The theology of jihad, with all its assumptions about unbelievers‚ lack of human rights and dignity, is available today as a justification for anyone with the will and the means to bring it to life.
Jihad Watch is dedicated to bringing public attention to the role that jihad theology and ideology play in the modern world and to correcting popular misconceptions about the role of jihad and religion in modern-day conflicts. By shedding as much light as possible on these matters, we hope to alert people of good will to the true nature of the present global conflict."
---------------
I agree with you that at a time when London should be celebrating, it's terrible that they have to tend to mourning.
But they are a fine, strong people who are tragically familar with such horror in the past. I mentioned the WWII bombing blitz - in more recent years they've lost more innocents to IRA terrorism than in today's bombing.
May they find comfort and know, that as with past evils designed to intimidate and enslave (e.g.Nazism, Communism), this one will likewise be confronted and vanquished by the civilised world.
In a couple of years, some strategy guy will probably emerge for the press and say: "well, I admit, we dropped the ball on that one", just as was the case with the Humm-Vee armour.
Let's round them up, distinguish between the real terrorists and unlucky passers by of arabic descent and muslim origin, put the real terrorists on trial and give them the highest punishment available. Had we stayed the course and not dicked around with a secular nation for years, the world support would still be immensely strong and the goals would definitely be possible to achieve.
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at: 7/7/05 17:42
at: 7/7/05 21:48