Former US general admits US imperialism

[DreamTone7]

*Yawn*...same old thing you've been trying to push in other non-related threads. Certainly there are economic reasons involved...but they are not the only reasons...though you would have everyone believe that, to be sure.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

[conalrehill]

*Yawn*...same old thing



Well, I'm nor sure if that's entirely fair.



Some people might find your endless repetition of 'we're the good guys' even more tedious. Oh, and wrong, too.

[conalrehill]

Gen. Smedley Butler, who headed many U.S. military interventions in the early part of this century, gave a stark account of what he had really been doing:



I have spent 34 years in active service as a member of the Marine Corps. And during that period I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle man for big business, for Wall Street and for the bankers.



In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism.



I helped make Mexico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank to collect revenues. I helped pacify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-12.



The First and Second World Wars resulted from the struggle between rival capitalist classes over the division of the globe. For example, the boundaries of most of the countries of today's Middle East were drawn during the carve-up of the Ottoman Empire between Britain and France following the First World War.



The Second World War ended with the division of the world into two rival empires--the U.S.-led Western bloc and the Russian-led Eastern bloc. Until the Eastern bloc collapsed in 1989, the Cold War competition between the U.S. and the USSR threatened to become a nuclear war. To "stop the spread of communism," the U.S. fought wars in Vietnam and Korea. And it used the same excuse to destabilize and overthrow regimes it opposed--from the Mossadegh government in Iran in 1953 to the Allende government in Chile in 1973.



The same system which produced the bloody slaughters of the world wars continues to produce wars today. The U.S. wields its huge power through institutions like the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, NATO and the UN. If poor countries do not comply with U.S. demands, the U.S. threatens to withhold bank loans, impose tariff barriers or withdraw diplomatic cooperation.



And at the end of the day, the U.S. is prepared to use brute force to back up its economic and political threats. That is why the U.S. fought the 1991 Gulf War. The war was not about peace and democracy, but about protecting the West's oil supplies in the Gulf.



Throughout the century, U.S. officials have justified wars and interventions with rhetoric about "protecting democracy," "stopping aggression," or, more recently, performing "humanitarian" duties. But these merely cover the real aims of U.S. policy--to make the world safe for big business and to establish, as President Bush said after the Gulf War, that "what we say goes."

[Seismic Anamoly]

So...Conal....what do we do??



Shut down Exxon, BP, General Motors, Ford, and IBM, along with every other multi-national corporation on the face of the planet and watch every Stock Market and Economy in the World slide down the toilet??



You gonna feed all the out-of-work people all over the World who lose their jobs??



You gonna supply them with fuel to move their vehicles when they are catapulted back into the Stone Age??



You gonna save the World as it plunges into Depression so deep there may not be any way out??



You gonna prevent the murders and killings that occur from the frustration, desperation, and starvation arising from it all??



All I've seen you do is point out and bitch ABOUT the problem. The real EASY part.



So you tell us (without the usual barrage of insults, i.e., "idiots", "rednecks", "morons", and the like, IF you can manage it)....how EXACTLY do we SOLVE the problem WITHOUT a complete Global meltdown?



Be our Saviour...our Deliverer From Evil. Thine IS the Power, isn't it??



What is the TOTAL Solution?? Detailed, Please.



Inquiring Minds really do Want To Know.

[conalrehill]

Well, Seismic Anamoly, you are simply caricaturing the changes necessary to bring capitalist markets under control and use them rather than allowing them to use us.



I cannot possibly summarize the huge amount of thinking and writing that has been done on this subject, but one of the main ways forward is the internationalisation of the co-operative European social market model. There was no economic 'meltdown' in Europe as it adopted this model, in fact quite the reverse. And of course, to answer your point about 'killing and murders', Europe's murder rate is a tiny fraction of the USA's. There has been no 'killer recession' and there have been no real fuel shortages. And, to address your point about joblessness, the ironic thing is that the American working class has suffered badly at the hands of its own government and big companies, who have shifted much production abroad and put them out of work. To expect small businesses and individual enterprize to replace such huge numbers of jobs and repair the damage done to local communities is quite frankly ridiculous. And, labour-intensive local economies in the developing world were much better at maintaining jobs than the capital-intensive mechanised production work or service-work that the corporations are foisting on them to make profits.



For over half a decade, Western Europe has enjoyed both tremendous prosperity and economic equality thanks to the policies pursued by socialist and labour parties in continuous debate with liberal and conservative parties. These nations used their relative wealth to ensure a high standard of living for their citizens - high wages, health care and subsidized education. More importantly, these states supported strong labour movements which became central players in economic decision-making.



The European model is struggling at the moment, not because it is a bad model, but because the globalization process has allowed markets to operate in deregulated zones where business can get cheap labour and avoid social responsibility. Stiff competition from low-wage labour markets in developing countries and the constant fear that industry would move to avoid taxes and strong labor regulations has diminished the ability of nations to launch ambitious economic reform on their own. Social democratic reform cannot survive in single nations, it must happen at the international level now - multinational corporations must be brought under democratic controls, and political organizing efforts must reach across borders.



In other words, the European model must be operated internationally and the American model of imperial adventurism and unbridled transnational competition in 'free' markets, which is bankrupting local economies in the developing world rather than helping them and destroying their delicate traditional ways of life, must be dispensed with if we are to avoid further hostility, terrorism and war. The developing natiopns must be allowed to develop slowly in their own ways, rather than having one model of corporate development forced on them by military imperialism. The latter model will cause nothing but bloodshed in the future.

Edited by: conalrehill at: 12/13/04 13:37

[Seismic Anamoly]

Quote:

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I cannot......

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That's what I thought.

[conalrehill]

"I cannot......"



I'm sorry but that's a bit childish, isn't it?



After I took the time to answer your question in detail.

[MIKE BURN]

Quote:

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The European model is struggling at the moment, not because it is a bad model, but because the globalization process has allowed markets to operate in deregulated zones where business can get cheap labour and avoid social responsibility. Stiff competition from low-wage labour markets in developing countries and the constant fear that industry would move to avoid taxes and strong labor regulations has diminished the ability of nations to launch ambitious economic reform on their own.

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VERY good point!!!!

[Seismic Anamoly]

Quote:

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I'm sorry but that's a bit childish, isn't it?

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[conalrehill]

Yes, but you did not engage with any of my points, which were carefully made in response to yours.



Surely that is slightly disrespectful?

[Seismic Anamoly]

Quote:

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Surely that is slightly disrespectful?

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To some, maybe.



Everyone is entitled.......but I digress.

[conalrehill]

But what is the point of taking part in a politics discussion if all you do is interject every now and again with a childish quip?



I took time to answer all your points, therefore demonstrating respect.



Why have you decided not to engage with the points I made?

[The Master68]

Because you are Steve Hall.. LMAO

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When you argue with a fool, be sure he isn't similarly occupied...

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Music - Organismo Cibernetico (Cybernetic Organism)

[Seismic Anamoly]

Or a student of the distinguished Prof.



Either way, if YOU are looking for respect from ME......don't hold your breath.



Now......Tally Ho!!

[Seismic Anamoly]

Ahhhhhh......a Sub-Ordinate.



A chip off the old Prof.