Does God Want Bush (re)Elected

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

If I thought Bush was bad, I would not vote for him. I vote for who I think will do the best job...unless God tells me otherwise, which he has not in this case. But God will have elected whoever fits Gods plan, regardless of who I vote for. Note that this does not mean that we are not to try and make a difference where we can. It is kind of a difficult concept. We are to try, but also to have faith that God will see to it that what is supposed to happen (according to his plan) will happen. Note also that this is my personal opinion on the subject.

From my point of view, the Bible is all about each of us as individuals and how we should conduct ourselves and what we should be doing (to include thinking). And although we are encouraged to spread the "good news", we are not supposed to pass judgement on anybody...though the Bible does make allowance for such a thing a righteous indignation. In my experience, I have never come across somebody that is purely evil. We all have shades of it in varying degrees...nobody is perfect. But as long as we point to the Bible (in a proper contextual fashion) and not ourselves as experts, we stand a much better chance of not making mistakes as Christians, I think. Just because somebody twists the Bible does not mean that you have to, or that there isn't a lot of good words that can be found in it. Approached with the view of learning from it, and not to further ones own agenda, I think it is a very valuable book.

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

HK - "Is bush a legitimate leader? thats open to question, considering how the whole "election" was a farce..."

I don't know about "farce", but it is something that is questionable.

HK - "Hitler was legitimate leader."

I don't think so. (Where's Mike when you need him?) Hitler got where he was by murdering his opposition, so I would consider him an usurper of sorts. But I need to look at the Bible before I can say for sure what I think. It's been a long time since I read that portion of it.

HK - "Oh, I know what the bible says, but in context it means respect the position, and if you disagree then do it in a lawful way..."

Without checking the Bible, I would have to say that that is probably pretty close.

HK - "Nowhere does the bible say obey your leader even if he has violated the first five commandments and continues to do so while proclaiming his own "goodness" as being from God."

Nowhere does it say not to, either...as long as he is legitimate. If he has violated commandments, God will take care of him in due time...it is not up to us. How would we know that he had violated them? By what other people have said? I don't know about that. God took care of Saddam...he just doesn't work on our timetable. He historically (based on my opinion and what I have read) has a habit of giving people a chance to either repent, or hang themselves. God has much patience. If God wants Bush re-elected, he will be.

HK - "Whats the difference between a "legitimate" leader and "others", and who decides that, the CIA?"

The Bible and you. I think that this is one of the many cases that you must think upon...a test of your own character more so than that of the leader you are thinking about, I think. As I indicated, I think that the Bible is really all about each one of us and our own choices. It's a tough call unless you are very familiar with the Bible.

Rev9Volts · Joined: 10 Jul 2003 Posts: 1327

thankee! he is still welcome, but i ain't feeding a bunch of secret service agents...

HKRockChick · No More Peas! Joined: 25 Nov 2003 Posts: 1513

does "righteous indignation" justify jihad?

On the one hand I admire your faith, on the other, it's so blind and narrow it scares the hell outta me.

:fg

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

There is no "jihad" in the Christian faith. The Crusades were all started from a church...not the Bible. People have committed many atrocities in the name of God and/or Christ. Many wonder at the Israelis who slaughtered the Cannanites, but they should read the Bible. The reason for that slaughter was because of the lifestyle of the Cannanites...it was a judgement against them and their lifestyle. You yourself mentioned Rehab who aided Joshuas spies to the city of Jericho. She and her family were spared because she bowed to the Jewish God, and forsook the Cannanite gods in the process.

Though for the vast majority of groups this is not true, I think that some songs by "Rush", for example, show evidence of thought, and are much more than the banal rantings of a teenager in heat. (Most of the lyrics are written by the drummer, Niel Peart.)

From "Whitch Hunt" (Moving Pictures - Rush):

(speaking about mankind)

Quick to judge, quick to anger

Slow to understand

Ignorance and prejudice...

...and fear walk hand in hand

The song was about "witch hunts" as carried out in Salem and other towns in early American history. This applies, I think, to all of us...including those who are quick to make a "witch" out of some of our leaders. I have opinions, but I prefer not to judge (NOT pass judgement) so quickly...lest I make a big mistake.

I would point out that if you believe, as I do, that God passed judgement on Saddam, then Bush was being used by God at the time...of his own volition or not.

What do you think?

Rev9Volts · Joined: 10 Jul 2003 Posts: 1327

i think the isrealites were wrong to kill the cannenites...i think many people in sweeden live a sinful lifestyle, but i ain't attacking them...

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

God isn't telling you to...is he? If it is his will (not yours) to pass judgement on them, he will...in his own time.

Rev9Volts · Joined: 10 Jul 2003 Posts: 1327

sounds like a jihad to me... terrorist think allah tells them to kill wicked americans just like isreal did to the cannanites...

were not theyu the ones who were also killed so the isrealites would not marry them?

so let's kill the witches (few were) because they have a different religion than christianity.

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

Find out what a "jihad" is, and who it applies to first. Then you may realize the difference.

HKRockChick · No More Peas! Joined: 25 Nov 2003 Posts: 1513

My moderate Muslim friends say that Jihad simply means struggle, particularly everyday, in your daily life - meeting challenges and staying strong in mind.

Terrorists have taken it to mean revenge because of righteous indignation. And thats what many people understand it to be today, which is why I used the term.

Its so easy to kill because "God told me to" and thats how all terrorists justify murder, including certain leaders. you see, the devil quotes scripture...

You yourself said that God takes care of things in his own time - should people do this then? Why don't we let God do it all?

Even though it is the first commandment "thou shalt not kill" and there are references all over the bible about not taking a life, it seems that people interpreting the bible think that killing is OK, but sex....ooooooooooo no, those bad people should be stoned and killed immediately. And are there some who dont believe? Oh Goody! let's go kill and slaughter them now, cause God told us to.

I personally think that people who say God told them are hearing little voices in their heads and should be institutionalised immediately for the safety of others around them. God tells many serial killers to murder too, don't you know?

Bottom line: Are YOU saying its OK to murder in the name of God?

HKRockChick · No More Peas! Joined: 25 Nov 2003 Posts: 1513

Quote:
Quick to judge, quick to anger

Slow to understand

Ignorance and prejudice...

...and fear walk hand in hand

The song was about "witch hunts" as carried out in Salem and other towns in early American history. This applies, I think, to all of us...including those who are quick to make a "witch" out of some of our leaders. I have opinions, but I prefer not to judge (NOT pass judgement) so quickly...lest I make a big mistake.

Iraq was a big mistake. I think the devil made bush do it... with promises of kingship over men. Saddam was captured, but thousands upon thousands of innocent people died, and continue to die to this day. Worse, it has started wave upon wave of far far worse terrorism.

Condoned by GOD? Shame that you say that!

:frankie

Why don't you go out and condone Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot and all the other killers? Couldn't they too have been put there by god to kill all those "terrible" people like they did? Maybe those people had it coming to them too? :seismo

End of discussion. I think you are an extremist, who quotes bible to suit your ends...

The Truth Is Out There · Joined: 02 Aug 2004 Posts: 2

Grandiosity - an inflated sense of one's worth, power, knowledge, importance, or identity.

Quote:

a WOMAN with an OPINION

Quote:

End of discussion.

Earlier analysis proven.

Rev9Volts · Joined: 10 Jul 2003 Posts: 1327

that was kind of my point about god telling people what to do... how do we really know god told the isrealites to slaughter the cannanites.

joan of arc heard voices... was she evil?

HKRockChick · No More Peas! Joined: 25 Nov 2003 Posts: 1513

People who hear voices are likely schizophrenic - one of the symptoms is hallucinations, either auditory, visual or even sensory (like imagining worms coming out of your flesh and then scratching yourself till you bleed)...they are not evil, just mentally ill and need to be treated ASAP before they become dangerous to themselves or society.

If the voices tell you to go around killing people, I'd say that's pretty damn dangerous. Paranoid schizophrenia is probably the most risky one, because the individual imagines everyone is out to attack them, and so makes pre-emptive moves to attack others instead, or will become violently defensive at the slightest provocation. And because they are suspicious of everyone they are withdrawn and don't confide in anyone, so its hard to diagnose and treat.

All in all, people with mental illnesses need our help, not condemnation.

But to allow people to say "God told me, so I did it" as an excuse for murder and warfare, is reprehensible. We MUST question that.

Rev9Volts · Joined: 10 Jul 2003 Posts: 1327

yes, but what do you think of joan of arc?

of course we will never know were the voices she heard from god or was she schizophrenic?

she did great for france, she did not take france in a direction it did not want to go. she did not start the war/battles she was in and she lived a holy life.

personally from what i know "she was all that and a bag of potatoe chips".

yes no person sick should receive condemnation, but should receive help...