Deep racism and anti-semitism in America

[DreamTone7]

Yes, there certainly are wing-nut groups here in America. Almost everywhere there are large populations you will find these groups. But this is a far cry from the conscious social attitude that is apparently on the rise (again) in some parts of Europe these days. What is the exception in America is fast becomming the rule in Europe...though I don't believe that many in Europe are even consciously aware of this change in attitude towards Jews. But think about it: Why would there be a law in Germany forbidding the denial of the slaughter of the Jews under Hitler unless there were those who would try to deny it ever happened? If nobody is exceeding the speed limit, would it even occur to anybody to create a law against speeding? Laws don't get created unless a need for them is determined by somebody. This European attitude towards the situation in Palestine is another case in point.

[questionnaire]

"Yes, there certainly are wing-nut groups here in America"



... no, completely wrong, DT.



See my other post where the American Psychological Association reports that racial violence is an everyday occurrence, not just the work of wacko political groups.



You don't even know much about your own country.

[DreamTone7]

[questionnaire]

OK, for every article Ron posts slagging Europe there's another one revealing racism and anti-semitism in America. This could go on until the cows come home (hope that's not showing my anti-bovinism, Ron). Where is it getting us? Nowehere! Who has the most time on their hands and can clickety-click around the net faster wins. Pathetic and stupid. What we need to be doing on a political discussion board is examining the causes of racism and what can be done about it.



By JIM NESBITT



c.2001 Newhouse News Service



With the towers of the World Trade Center fatally damaged but still standing, a leader in one of the many splinter groups of the Far Right fringe of American politics posted a Web site message praising the "Islamic freedom fighters" and hoping the terrorist attacks were the first shots in a racial holy war that would topple the U.S. government.



"May the WAR be started," wrote August Kreis, webmaster of the neo-@#%$ Sheriff's Posse Comitatus group, based in Ulysses, Pa. "DEATH to His (God's) enemies, may the World Trade Center BURN TO THE GROUND! ... We can blame no others than ourselves for our problems due to the fact that we allow ... Satan's children, called jews today, to have dominion over our lives."



While many Americans are swept up in the patriotic fervor that has followed the Sept. 11 jetliner assaults on the Pentagon and the World Trade Center, the loose and fractious network of neo-@#%$, skinheads, Klansmen, Christian patriots, neo-Confederates and white separatists have had a far different reaction.



In newsgroup postings, Web site articles and Internet radio broadcasts,they have expressed everything from outright admiration for the Arab terrorists to more measured communiques. The latter condemn the terrorists,but blame the attacks on an American foreign policy that unabashedly backs Israel, calling for an "America First" shift toward isolationism.



The most hardcore response comes from groups that see themselves at war with the U.S. government, which they have dubbed the Zionist Occupation Government, or ZOG. Despite their racial and religious beliefs, they express solidarity with anyone who attacks what they see as the common enemy.



It is a sign of a pronounced generational shift of beliefs in the radical American Right and increased willingness to monitor international events to find philosophical allies in groups that an earlier wave of racists dismissed as "mud people."



War against ZOG -- the U.S. government -- is the ultimate target of America's racial revolutionaries and overrides all other considerations. ZOG is a tagline from "The Turner Diaries," a novel of racist revolution by neo-@#%$ National Alliance leader William Pierce that has become a guidebook for many racists and anti-government zealots, including executed Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh.



In a bulletin board message documented by KlanWatch, the investigative arm of the civil rights watchdog group, the Southern Poverty Law Center, National Alliance deputy Billy Roper wrote: "The enemy of our enemy is, for now at least, our friends. We may not want them marrying our daughter, just as they would not want us marrying theirs. We may not want them in our societies, just as they would not want us in theirs. But anyone who is willing to drive a plane into a building to kill jews is alright by me. I wish our members had half as much testicular fortitude."



On his daily Web site bulletin board, White Aryan Resistance (WAR) leader Tom Metzger wrote: "This operation took some long-term planning, and, throughout the entire time, these soldiers were aware that their lives would be sacrificed for their cause. If an Aryan wants an example of `Victory or Valhalla,' look no further."

[LarreeMP3]

Quote:

---

See my other post where the American Psychological Association reports that racial violence is an everyday occurrence, not just the work of wacko political groups.

---

F*&k the APA. I live in a neighborhood that is totally racially mixed. I have neighbors from Syria, Iran, Korea, Japan, Germany, Mexico, and a host of other countries. Everybody gets along around here.



You shouldn't believe all the BS you read, Q. You do not know a damned thing about my country.

Click here to listen to three decades of original Larree music!

[LarreeMP3]

You ARE an anti-American propagandist, Q.



You're British, right? Well, YOUR country is responsible for ALL the hate in the Middle East these days because you didn't honor your early commitments to the Jewish people and the state of Israel. You guys turned the Arabs into the Jew-haters they are.

Click here to listen to three decades of original Larree music!

Edited by: LarreeMP3 at: 7/12/04 16:08

[questionnaire]

.... talking to dolts like you.



The fact that your neighbourhood is peaceful doesn't mean that all neighbourhoods in America are peaceful. The fact that my neighbourhood is peaceful doesn't mean that all British neighbourhoods are peaceful. Is this getting through to you? Normally, I wouldn't expect to need to explain this to anyone over the age of 11.



America has the highest racially-motivated murder rate in the industrialized West.



The collective IQ of you, Ron and DT would probably struggle to get into double figures.



Imbecile

[DreamTone7]

America also has the highest murder rate, so your statement as it pertains to that which is racially motivated is meaningless. However, hate crimes in France have been on the rise for the past two months.

[Rev9Volts]

the guy is from Ulysses, Pa. he is a yankee so what do you expect. more like that up north than south.



prolly more in west like idaho state.



anyho...



if black murders are discounted i mean black on black the murder rate with guns is par to europe. most black on black crime is drug gang related also.

[questionnaire]

Rev, you are an illiterate, educationally sub-normal racist scumbag.



Please f*ck off.

[RonOnGuitar]

Quote:

---

there certainly are wing-nut groups here in America. Almost everywhere there are large populations you will find these groups. But this is a far cry from the conscious social attitude that is apparently on the rise (again) in some parts of Europe these days. What is the exception in America is fast becomming the rule in Europe...though I don't believe that many in Europe are even consciously aware of this change in attitude towards Jews

---

What's interesting to me is that Steve automatically identified with the thugs on the Paris train and that set him off on another emotional spamspree. He could have just said, "that's terrible". But I'll save the psychology involved for the thread where analysis of the personal issues involved is more topical.



Your analysis above is spot on, DT, but I'd disagree with one of the latter thoughts.



First, though, I may need to remind you of how I had explained to Steve that his terminology and the way he expresses his views about Jews were indistinguishable from nutso anti-Semitic groups. So it's interesting to consider the group cited in this old newsclip - the Posse Comitatus.



They and Steve could carry on quite the conversation. They too believe that "Jews aren't sacred cows", they have their religious conspiracy notions, have done an "expose of Jewry" (sounding familiar?) and serve as apologists for the anti-Semitic homicide-bombers. They link to Hamas. And, of couse, they're also fond of the buzzwords!



Regarding your correct point: what Americans consider shameful, is the acceptable norm in much of Europe - others have called it "the cancer of Europe". Where I disagee is that much of EU anti-Semitism is quite overt (acted out) and recognized by many Europeans, as recently reported by the BBC (see article below). But you're right in the sense that many other EUers only experience it as their subconsious cultural heritage.

------------------

(I'm shocked - shocked - I tell you, to see the "Top 5" nations on the list in the 2nd paragraph!)



Anti-Semitism 'on rise in Europe'



Attacks against Jews in Europe have sharply increased, says a report by a European anti-racism watchdog.



The study singles out Belgium, France, Germany, the Netherlands and Britain, where it says the rise in anti-Semitism has been of particular concern.



Other countries, including Ireland and Portugal, showed little sign of any rise in attacks, the report says.



It identifies "young, disaffected white Europeans" as the key culprits followed by North African or Asian Muslims.



The report urges European states to co-operate more closely to fight racism.



It suggests school text books should be checked for bias and teachers trained to increase awareness of race issues.



Publication of this latest report follows controversy over the European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia's (EUMC) decision to shelve a similar study last year.



That led the heads of the World and European Jewish Congresses, Edgar Bronfman and Cobi Benatoff, to accuse European officials themselves of being anti-Semitic.



Anti-Jewish attacks ranged from hate mail to arson in the incidents catalogued by the EUMC in 2002 and the first quarter of 2003.



In the UK there were there were violent attacks on two synagogues in 2002 and in 2003 there were two cases of suspected arson and several attacks on Jewish cemeteries.



Debate



France's statistics suggested a "significant" rise in anti-Semitic violent incidents and threats in 2002 - six times as many as in 2001.



There were "many incidents of Jewish people assaulted and insulted, attacks against synagogues, cemeteries and other Jewish property, and arson against a Jewish school," the report said.



The report also highlights member states where there is little evidence of any increase in anti-Semitism - such as Ireland, Luxembourg, Portugal and Finland.



EUMC director Beatte Winkler said: "It is clear that anti-Semitism manifests itself with greater strength in some countries than in others, and where relatively reliable statistics are kept, there is evidence of an increase in the regularity of these incidents over the past two or three years.



"Such a conclusion is reached in the case of Belgium, Germany, France, the Netherlands and the UK.



"The aim of this report is to provide accurate data and information which can start a debate in Europe on how to counter anti-Semitism, and lead to effective policies across the Union.



BBC - Anti-Semitism On The Rise In Europe

[LarreeMP3]

Quote:

---

Rev, you are an illiterate, educationally sub-normal racist scumbag.



Please f*ck off.

---

Q. you ar a f*cking hypocrite for getting on me for calling you the f*ckwad you are, yet talking to rev like this. Go f*ck yourself, you scumbag hypocrite shlong slurper.

Click here to listen to three decades of original Larree music!

[questionnaire]

"What's interesting to me is that Steve automatically identified with the thugs on the Paris train and that set him off on another emotional spamspree. He could have just said, "that's terrible". But I'll save the psychology involved for the thread where analysis of the personal issues involved is more topical..... First, though, I may need to remind you of how I had explained to Steve that his terminology and the way he expresses his views about Jews were indistinguishable from nutso anti-Semitic groups."



Just thought I'd reproduce this to remind readers what pompous a*sehole you are, Ron, and how you use underhand tactics to smear your opponents. You have no qualifications in psychology. You are an amateur with no qualifications in any scientific or intellectual discipline. You are a suburban bar-room windbag, so any psychological analysis you make of me or anyone else is utterly worthless. Neither have you any qualifications as a semiotician, so your analysis of my terminology and mode of expression is also worthless. You are not sufficiently qualified or intelligent to 'explain' anything to me or anyone else on this board. You probably come here because nobody in real life has ever taken any notice of your rambling low-brow nonsense.



Because you constantly suggest that I am an anti-semite, you are also a malicious liar. You play your cards very badly, Ron, and you are losing the game. Accusing people of anti-semitism to smear them in the eyes of others is the lowest, dirtiest trick played by the most ignoble people. People can see exactly what you are doing, and because you are not very intelligent you are incapable of understanding how easily people can see you through you. Let me say this to the readers, now that you have yet again brought it up: there is not an anti-semitic or racist bone in my body, but I still disagree vehemently with the hard-line Zionist policy towards Palestine.



In the morning your anti-semitic allegations will be forwarded to the board adminstrator, Ezboard legal and my lawyer, an English barrister and Law Professor who is a colleague of mine at the University. Malicious little windbags like you need to be taught a sharp legal lesson, and I'm going to put considerable effort in finding out if its possible to do it.

[RonOnGuitar]

Quote:

---

Just thought I'd reproduce this to remind readers

---

Steve, you're welcome to play to whatever audience you may conjure up mentally, but you're just wasting keyboard strokes repeating what was already said. My working assumption is if anyone cares to read whatever, they probably have already mastered the art of "scrolling up" one post. Your unique spam-spree reaction to a post just recounting one news story in Paris is noteworthy in it's reactionary absurdity.



Now, on this personal rage thing where you're going to tell everybody how you just couldn't handle the give & take of some web BB; I'm sure you're mentioning the part about telling a Jew how his people - the Jews - aren't "sacred cows" anymore (as if Jews historically have been handled with kid gloves). And of course, you will be telling the your audiences of your kind invite of a Jew to Britian in order that you may pummel him into submission? Perhaps that's considered not only legal, but great good sport, on Brit soil(?) - but I believe perhaps you may find others disagree.



I'd recommend, what with terrible give & take "rough and tumble" BB posting being too much, you spend more time riding that bike you got. Good exercise and a much better choice of "rage outlet" than BB ventings.

[DreamTone7]

Ron - I didn't realize that is was as bad as it is in Europe. This sheds a little light as to why many Europeans back Palestinians in the dispute they have with Israel...and maybe why the ICJ ruled against Israel so quickly.