Why some Christian fundamentalists support Israel.

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

Q - "I had just mentioned exposing DT's fundamentalist Christianity,..."

For the record, the only time you can expose something is if it/they are trying to hide. Not the case with me. I'm a Christian and proud (as the lord will allow me to be) of it.

Q - "...I've experienced a superiority complex,..."

While I doubt that, I do agree that you could use a dose of humility when dealing with others.

questionnaire · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 640

"Steve, if you check back you'll see that you were/are upset over some mention of "inferiority" or the like ..." - Ron

No, I wasn't. You're mistaken.

Now, back to the point.

DT admits to being a devout Christian and a biblical literalist. At least he has the integrity to reveal his position and let us know where he is coming from.

So have I - I have made it clear that I am a democratic socialist in the English Labour Party tradition.

What about you Ron? What's your take on the bible and the 'End of Days' prophecy?

DT, the people who rampage around the world trying to impose their culture and economic system - which they think is the best possible - are the ones who need a lesson in humility. We all know who I'm talking about, don't we?

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

Q - "the people who rampage around the world trying to impose their culture..."

Sounds EXACTLY like Muslim extremists.

questionnaire · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 640

C'mon, Ron. Answer the question.

If you're silent, people will assume you have something to hide.

If you're not a Christian fundamentalist, just say so, but admitting it would be a good way of getting rid of me, because I'm not hanging round here to argue with two retired Christian fundamentalists. That would be pointless.

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

Q - I'll let Ron speak for himself, but I seriously doubt you know enough about what a Christian is to even know the difference between a fundamentalist and non-fundamentalist Christian. If you did, you wouldn't have been so quick to label me as one. The fact is that I am not a fundamentalist...though I don't see any point in discussing the subject with you. Just something for other readers of this post to file away in their minds somewhere.

questionnaire · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 640

"The fact is that I am not a fundamentalist ..."

Fair enough.

But you still believe that the above-mentioned biblical prophecy is true. Is that right?

So would you describe yourself as more of a biblical literalist?

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

Well...since you asked...I think that everything the Bible says is true (or will become true). But I don't take everything in the Bible as being literal. In my opinion, much of the Bible - espicially in Genesis and Revelation - is metaphor. Although I do not dismiss the possibility, I do not believe a dragon with ten heads and seven horns is going to come up out of the sea. I believe this is a metaphor. I do believe that there will literally be an anti-Christ and that Christ will return for a final battle. Will this be a literal battle with guns and weapons as we know them? I do not know. But there is a lot that is literal in the Bible as far as how we are to live our lives and treat each other...this is something that IS relevant to me NOW, and is something I CAN apply to my life. How and when Christ comes is something I look forward to, though I do not know when or how it is going to happen. I do know that many of the prophesies in the Revelation have come true, and the signs indicate that the time for Christ's return, if I had to guess, will be sometime in my lifetime.

To me, the Bible is all about how I am to live MY life...and is not designed to explain everything that happens in this world. I do not believe that religion and politics mix well, but acknowledge the fact that a strongly Christian man will most likely work for the benefit of all, and not just himself. Is Bush such a man? I could not tell you...nor could you tell me. None of us knows who the real Bush is enough to even hazard a guess, in my opinion. Unless we know ALL of the relevant facts and know him well on a personal level, I don't believe we, any of us, are capable of making such a judgement. This does not mean I do not believe in making judgement...this is something we must all do for ourselves. Biblically speaking, there is a big difference between making a judgement, and passing judgement. The latter is for God alone, because he alone sees all.

Any more questions, feel free to ask.

HKRockChick · No More Peas! Joined: 25 Nov 2003 Posts: 1513

‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’

If one can turn a blind eye to murder and injustice, what does anything else matter.

Unfortunately this quote is often used by people to justify illegal invasions etc etc etc, under the pretext of "good". The devil uses scripture....

*******************

"In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."

- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-196

Edited by: HKRockChick at: 7/12/04 1:36

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

That first quote, if used wisely, applies only to those things within our capability to do something about. And I agree with it.

The unfortunate truth is that the world is already full of people who are ready to tell you what they think should be done, based on their own limited perspective on the issues...but will not really get up off of their own tokus and actually do something about it themselves. As they say, talk is cheap...if a person truly feels strongly about what they say, then they should do something about it...and not spend so much time telling others what to think and what they think they should do about it. That accomplishes little except to possibly alienate one from their fellow human being. An ascerbic approach will almost certainly not accomplish the intent, and stands a good chance of accomplishing the alienation...thus making the slim chance of accomplishing the former through words even slimmer than it already is. But it IS good for accomplishing the work of the devil...if you believe in such.

So the question remains...what exactly is each of us capable of accomplishing. Well, if we continue to sit behind our computer screens and tell others what they should think and do, I would suggest very little (especially since, in many cases, the intent is not truly what it is purported to be). We are certainly capable of making a difference within the people that we meet in our own lives. Based on desire and circumstances, possibly more...and on the rare occasion, a whole lot more. But we must each answer these questions for ourselves...we each know better what we are truly capable of more than anybody else...except, for those who believe in him, God.

And if you indeed think that being a leader of great change is your calling, I would strongly suggest that you understand yourself and your fellow human being to the extent that you do not inadvertantly turn them off to the whole idea of your cause. (And since you intend to be a leader, turning them off to you accomplishes the same dead end.) After all, isn't it people that are supposed to be important here? Crushing a bunch of people so that you can achieve some lofty goal would make you no better than the people whose actions you seem to so vehemently disapprove of...or is crushing people feelings acceptable, as long as we don't kill them?

RonOnGuitar · Joined: 08 Jan 2003 Posts: 1916

"Steve, if you check back you'll see that you were/are upset over some mention of "inferiority" or the like ..." - Ron

Quote:
No, I wasn't. You're mistaken.

Well, Steve, you're probably just having a bit of a problem recalling your previous post. No need to scroll back up, though:

Quote:
I was responding to your stupid, tedious comment about my 'lack of self-worth.'

By your own words, you identified yourself personally as someone whom the term "lack of self-worth" applies. And it certainly reads as if you are/were upset over the self-identification you had made.

I'm always interested in the pathology of bigotry - religious, race-based or otherwise. Personally, I feel no need to attack others based on their faith or race. This is an area where Americans have an advantage, though, since we' re a multicultural nation, including the spectrum of world religious beliefs. We have more day to day contact with those of differing belief systems.

What I would recommend is that you visit religious boards to debate your issues with whatever faith(s) you may be choose. They are more designed for just such a thing. A cursory Google search yielded up the below link as one popular place:

BeliefNet.Com

I don't mean to at all discourage you from starting a thread to share your personal faith here. However, for experienced webusers, religion boards are more useful for such a purpose.

questionnaire · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 640

"Well...since you asked...I think that everything the Bible says is true (or will become true)..... if you have any more questions, feel free to ask."

No more questions. I rest my case.

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

You know, it kind of ticks me off when you're kind enough to answer a personal question from somebody and they turn around and misquote you for the specific purpose of furthering their own agenda. Are you sure you don't work for the media, Steve? Michael Moore perhaps?

questionnaire · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 640

"By your own words, you identified yourself personally as someone whom the term "lack of self-worth" applies. And it certainly reads as if you are/were upset over the self-identification you had made." - Ron

I said the subject was closed. I feel fine about myself. How many more times do I have to tell you? You are talking complete, utter juvenile gobbledygook, and it's starting to get mildly irritating, to be frank.

"I'm always interested in the pathology of bigotry - religious, race-based or otherwise. Personally, I feel no need to attack others based on their faith or race."

Now, this rubbish about my 'self-worth' and this juvenile attempt to portray me as a bigot, an anti-semite or whatever in this horrible underhanded manner is a typical but standard and transparent attempt to distract attention from the real issue. Which is this: I don't think that you and DT come on this board or any other board to have a political discussion. I think you are a couple of older men who come on this board to impose your hard-line Christian right-wing agenda on anyone who is young or naive enough to listen to you.

Now, I'm not attacking you for having those politics or religious views - that indeed would be bigotry - or suggesting that you should not put them forward - that would be censorship - but I'm just trying to persuade you to come clean about the fact that you hold these views. When people know where you're coming from, this helps them make up their mind about what you're saying.[/b]

Now, DT has had the integrity to come clean about his religious faith, and you will notice that I have not attacked him for it. You know that my politics are democratic socialist and I am an atheist, what about you?

You are in a difficult situation, Ron:

- if you are silent, people will suspect that you have some sort of extreme politics or religious faith that you feel you need to hide.

- if you reveal your politics or faith, which I suspect are extreme, then people will be suspicious anyway.

Psychologists call this a 'double-bind' situation.

I think you might just continue in your attempt to worm your way out of this and distract attention from yourself by implanting suggestion in people's heads that I am a bigot and an anti-semite who lacks self-esteem etc etc *yawn*

You see, Ron, I don't think that the radical muslims are the only violent religious extremists in this world. Not by a long chalk.

questionnaire · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 640

"You know, it kind of ticks me off when you're kind enough to answer a personal question from somebody and they turn around and misquote you for the specific purpose of furthering their own agenda." - DT

DT, I apologize, you're right - well, half-right, anyway. I didn't misquote you, but I did your quote out of context. You did go on to say that you're not exactly a literalist and you understand that metaphors are used quite a lot in the bible. An unqualified apology for that. I'm afraid that Ron, who misrepresents deliberately and frequently, is starting to darg me down to his level.

However, I'm, not misrepresenting you when I remind you that you did say that the prophecy in question is likely to come true in one way or another. Is that correct?

RonOnGuitar · Joined: 08 Jan 2003 Posts: 1916

Quote:
it kind of ticks me off when you're kind enough to answer a personal question from somebody and they turn around and misquote you for the specific purpose of furthering their own agenda

Admistering a Butthead2Beavis smacking atcha for taking the bait, DT!! hahaha.

A personal warning light goes off when anybody starts a "religious inquisition" on non-religious BBs. I don't know that it wouldn't set off a warning buzzer or two even on religious forums.