I didn't know about the German~USA biz before WWII

[bbchris]

I read this on another board where everyone is discussing Bush's Government. Someone posted a list of all the dictators that the US has endorsed and included in the list - A. Hitler. Someone said that was impossible:



I thought you are serious, but then I found Adolf Hitler on your list.

History lesson my friend. Germany declared war on USA, USA destroyed Hitlers Germany.

You must be kidding.



and this is his response:



No I'm not! As German bombs fell on London and @#%$ tanks rolled over US troops, Sosthenes Behn president and founder of the US based ITT corporation, met with his German representative to discuss improving German communication systems. ITT was designing and building @#%$ phone and radio systems as well as supplying crucial parts for German bombs. Our government knew all about this, for under a presidential order, US companies were licensed to trade with the @#%$. The choice of who would be licensed was odd, though. While the Secretary of State gave the Ford Motor Company permission to make @#%$ tanks, he simultaneously blocked aid to German-Jewish refugees because the US wasn't supposed to be trading with the enemy. Other US companies trading with the Third Reich were General Motors, DuPont, Standard Oil of New Jersey, Davis Oil Co., and the Chase National Bank. President Roosevelt did not stop them, fearing a scandal might lead to another stock market crash or lower US moral. Besides, the same companies that traded with Hitler were supplying the US with its armaments, and some corporate leaders threatened to withdraw their support if Roosevelt exposed them. Henry Ford was a good friend of Hitler's. His book -- The International Jew -- had Inspired Hltler's Mein Kampf. The Fuhrer kept Ford's picture in his office, and Ford was one of only four foreigners to receive Germany's highest civilian award. As for Sosthenes Behn, at the end of the war, he received the highest civilian award for service to his country -- the United States of America.



@#%$ stands for N.A.Z.I.

|Blah Blah|Thinking Out Loud|Jane Eliz||Talk Soup |

[DreamTone7]

I think some of this was going on while Germany was at war with England, but was cut off when America entered the war. I do not think Ford ever made @#%$ tanks...if it had, we would have been far along the way to having as good a tank as they had...which was not the case.

[Seismic Anamoly]

No doubt in my mind most of this is true....if there's Money to be made or Power to be gained, some scumbag will go after it, no matter who dies or suffers. Sad that they get decorated for it, too, but it happens.



DT has a good point on the tanks, though....our Shermans 76mm gun and engine couldn't touch the Panther 75mm high output gun or Tiger 88mm gun, engine, or armor....we just were able to produce more of them.



Good points, Chris. Governments and Big Business do some really shameful things "under the table". And young people die because of it.

Edited by: Seismic Anamoly  at: 6/15/04 17:56

[Galmin]

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I do not think Ford ever made @#%$ tanks...if it had, we would have been far along the way to having as good a tank as they had...which was not the case.

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Tanks? Not that I know.

The trooptransport Opel-Blitz, otoh, was crucial for the swiftmoving german army.

[RonOnGuitar]

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I think some of this was going on while Germany was at war with England

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The Lend-Lease to Britian was in the Spring of 1941, if memory serves.

LEND - LEASE



"Lend Lease" refers to the American policy of extending material aid to the Allies before and after the U.S. entry into WWII. In response to Churchill's plea, "give us the tools and we shall finish the job", President Roosevelt proposed a bill to allow the U.S. to "sell, lend, transfer, lease or exchange" weapons. Britain greatly benefited from this program.

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but was cut off when America entered the war. I do not think Ford ever made @#%$ tanks

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Ford tanks? Hmmm, if Ford didn't make 'em for Adolf it probably should have - now that would've slowed him down!!!



On the other hand, the Fuhrer himself came up with a nifty little vehicle: Hitler & the Volkswagen

[Galmin]

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Ford tanks? Hmmm, if Ford didn't make 'em for Adolf it probably should have - now that would've slowed him down!!!

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[Galmin]

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Hitler & the Volkswagen

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Nice doodle .

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Sitting at a restaurant table in Munich in the summer of 1932, Hitler designed the prototype for what would become the immensely successful Beetle design for Volkswagen

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Hogwash.







During the 20's Ferdinand Porsches designs blew the competition away (Caracciola at the steeringwheel)



Ferdinand Porsche made the scetches of Volkswagen Beetle in 1931. Professor Porsche was specialized in small, durable, cars since his days at Austro-Daimler.



In 1934 Porsche landed the deal to develop the KdF-Wagen.

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Hitler gave his design to the head of Daimler-Benz

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Riiiiiight. Hitler made the first doodle of a VW Beetle in 1932, gives it to Daimler-Benz (specialized in BIG HEAVY EXPENSIVE luxury sedans) and it turns up in Porsches designcompany a year earlier?



That's what you get for fishing for information on a revisionist site.

[DreamTone7]

Your point, please?

[Galmin]

Hitler never designed the prototype for the Beetle, as the site suggests. Read the text in the site Ron linked to, then read my previous post and you'll have your answer.

[DreamTone7]

I do not find the two, your text and the article, to be mutually exclusive.

[RonOnGuitar]

Well, Gal, I suppose one would be correct in calling the BBC "revisionist", what in the wake of all the resignations & embarrassment after the "sexed up" hoax, concocted by Andrew Gilligan.



But every once in awhile they surprise the world by not fabricating news:



"Though since the 1960s, the curvy Beetle has acquired a rather bohemian, louche image - it was the very antithesis of peace and love, Adolf Hitler, who dreamed up the concept.



The @#%$ dictator was outraged that car ownership in other countries was far more widespread than in Germany, thus denying his people a mobility which he saw as "a source of unknown joy".



In 1934, Hitler took tea with Ferdinand Porsche and mapped out his vision for a "people's car" (or Volkswagen) with a relatively modest price tag of 1,000 Reichmarks.



Within four years, Porsche had built many prototypes and watched Hitler lay the foundation stone of a huge factory to mass produce the cars - renamed the Kraft durch Freude Wagen or Strength Through Joy car."



Englishman who saved Hitler's Beetle



Whatever spin or timeframe, it was Der Fuhrer's baby.

So it's a cool car, but it's inventor just wasn't cool at all.

[Galmin]

The site claims Hitler designed the car through his doodle from 1932, he never did anything of the sort.



The first prototypes from the Ferdinand Porsche design were ordered by Mr Porsche to be built by Zündapp and the Reutter company in 1931. By then the design was ready. The first prototypes never made it into full fledged manufacturing, since the motor in the back was watercooled and did not get enough cooling. Porsche then put the aircooled boxermotor in the Type 12.



In 1933, Porsche made more prototypes together with NSU (a motorbike manufacturer), 3 prototypes (Type 32) were build at Draunz and the Reutter company.



Porsche met with Hitler in March 1933 to get funds from the state for designing a new racing car concept international GPX style for Auto Union (A.U._._). After this meeting, Hitler had Porsche shadowed, to find out more about his "small-car-project".

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In 1934, Hitler took tea with Ferdinand Porsche and mapped out his vision for a "people's car" (or Volkswagen) with a relatively modest price tag of 1,000 Reichmarks.

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Am 17.1.1934 legte Porsche seine Idee für das Massenautomobil dem Reichsverkehrsministerium als "Exposé betreffend den Bau eines deutschen Volkswagens" vor. In dem historisch bedeutendem Exposé beschrieb Ferdinand Porsche minutiös technische Eigenschaften und die Linie des Volkswagens.



The KdF concept (a car for everyone at RM 990.-) was Hitlers idea. The KdF-concept, however, never turned into reality. The RDA backed out on the project, pretty much everyone who had saved monthly through the pre-paying (The KdF-car was to be pre-financed 2 years prior to delivery) never got to see their cars delivered.

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Within four years, Porsche had built many prototypes and watched Hitler lay the foundation stone of a huge factory to mass produce the cars - renamed the Kraft durch Freude Wagen or Strength Through Joy car."

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Not counting the prototypes that had been built before Porsche ever had heard of the KdF-idea, at a time when the VW was already designed.

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Whatever spin or timeframe, it was Der Fuhrer's baby.So it's a cool car, but it's inventor just wasn't cool at all.

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Hitler gave 30 million RM in the first year to the carproject alone, sure. He made it possible to press the price in the area of 1100.- RM.

It was, however, Porsches design. The VW was never designed by Hitler. Now did Hitler invent the VW. Porsche did.



End of discussion.

Edited by: Galmin  at: 6/20/04 13:14

[RonOnGuitar]

Sorry - but as I sez, you'll hafta take the issue up with the BBC (at the least), Gal. Good luck!

[Galmin]

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Sorry - but as I sez, you'll hafta take the issue up with the BBC (at the least), Gal. Good luck!

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BBC doesn't claim that Hitler designed the VW, www.hitler.org does.



BBC doesn't claim that Hitler invented the VW, you do.



BBC claims that a british soldier; Ivan Hirst, major with the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers, got the productionline going once the war was over.



It may very well be true, I have no reason to doubt it.

[DreamTone7]

Define "invented", Galmin. For my definition, I think they both had a hand in it.