2 heavy bomb blasts in Istanbul

MIKE BURN · Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 4:51 pm Post subject: 2 heavy bomb blasts in Istanbul

...and still Mr. Bush talks in London about "bringing freedom to the world".

The terror is now reaching Europe, for the wrongdoings of American cowboy-mentality and world-leadership attitude. IMHO

Quote:
CNN

The British consul general was among at least 26 people killed when explosions rocked Istanbul today, diplomatic sources said. As many as 450 people were injured in the blasts, which witnesses said were caused by car bombs.

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

Great....just great. Now people are starting to blame a person for the wrongdoings of another. Bush did not bomb Istanbul.....it was somebody else. They are accountable for their own actions.....and nobody else.

MIKE BURN · Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: re

Wrong.

Just watch now how many British people are protesting in London against the lies of Blair and Bush TODAY.

Almost more than 100,000 and this in a "civilized" country where more than 14,000 policemen trying to prevent that.

I tell you something what I have told already on day 1 of the 9/11 attacks:

You CAN'T conquer Terrorism with bombs and killings.

You CREATE Terrorism with bombs and killings.

You have to STOP what feeds Terrorism and this includes

being able to compromise and to STOP pressing a form of

society into other cultures, which do not want to be pressed

into this kind of "better culture and business" by all means.

More than 20,000 dead civilians in Iraq and more than 40,000 in Afghanistan are telling you the story.

Many tragedies in Ireland are telling you the story.

Many tragedies in Spain (Basque) are telling you the story.

The rest of the world does NOT want to conquer Terror with Terror, except of Israel and the USA.

Edited by: MIKE BURN at: 11/20/03 7:36 pm

MIKE BURN · Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: re

Ken Livingstone, the major of London, just said yesterday:

"This Mr. Bush is setting the world on fire!"

Edited by: MIKE BURN at: 11/20/03 7:38 pm

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

"You CAN'T conquer Terrorism with bombs and killings."

I'll buy that.

"You CREATE Terrorism with bombs and killings."

Nope....How do you explain the many who are bombed and do not become terrorists? "Terrorism exists REGARDLESS of bombs and killing" would be correct.

"You have to STOP what feeds Terrorism and this includes being able to compromise..."

No way. Try to compromise with them and you will have every country with an axe to grind feeling just that much more justified in spreading terrorism further. Compromise helps create terrorism.....not stop it.

A terrorist has everything to gain and nothing to lose. When you realize this, you will also realize that the only real way to stop it is from the inside....by changing peoples minds not just about the world they live in, but about themselves as well. Sort of an attitude adjustment....and I agree the US is not doing a great job of this. We, however, are the only country out there trying. No other country in the world spends nearly as much to help out other nations...and I'm not just talking $ amounts, I'm talking GNP. Until other countries are willing to join in, I don't think other countries deserve the "right" to criticize our actions. There are critics, and there are those in the arena. "Which one am I" is the question we need to ask ourselves...and not spend so much time pointing fingers at others.

MIKE BURN · Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: re

Quote:
"...I don't think other countries deserve the "right" to criticize our actions. There are critics, and there are those in the arena. "Which one am I" is the question we need to ask ourselves...and not spend so much time pointing fingers at others."

Oh well, obviously I have decided for myself "Which one am I?"

And I'm not alone at least and don't feel like being an extremist.

Make that 200,000 people in London......

NRKofOver · Joined: 07 Sep 2002 Posts: 505

I think both of you make valid points.

While changing hearts and minds is the most important thing in stopping terrorism, unfortunately, the US approach seems to fuel the darkening of hearts and minds rather than bringing them to more peaceful approaches.

Bush is a problem for world stability. I don't blame him for the rash of bombings, but there always is cause and effect and accepting responsibility for a failed approach would be nice to see.

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debbie mannas · Joined: 30 Sep 2002 Posts: 1352

although bush himself did not do the bombings, he has created TONS more terrorists and recruiters to their cause through his shortsighted and greedy administration, and illegal and murderous invasion of Iraq.

I hold this administration directly responsible for the crap unleashed upon the world today. It was predicted that there would be more terrorists in pockets all over the world because of sympathy for the "Islamic Jihad" in light of the illegal invasion of Iraq, and assistance of another state sponsored terrorist, Israel, and viola!

Not saying their cause is right or I am sympathetic with the terrorists (before you label us all terrorists) - in fact I am appalled and totally condemning of their actions. But Bush and his BS thieving terrorist administration have opened a can of worms because of greed, costing American and untold other lives around the world.

You can only change hearts and minds through FAIRNESS and JUSTICE and EDUCATION. NOT war, especially when it is obvious to all it was GREED that motivated it. I can think of many other more productive things they might have done to make the world safer - top of this list is to stop aiding Israel's terrorism - instead of invading Iraq.

We have news of bombings almost daily now. I am terrified of the time when it comes to our neighbourhoods.

Do you really think the world is safer because of bush? REALLY REALLY??????? if you do, you are delusional.

NumberOneWorld · Joined: 28 Jun 2002 Posts: 85

Quote:
Bush did not bomb Istanbul.....

are you sure? my guess, Turkey will now commit the troops it denied america recently...

when bush was asked about being the most feared and hated leader in history, he replied... " i love freedom".. so that is to say, he likes that people have the ability to complain about the situation.. ok, let's look at why they'd complain in the first place... ulimately it's as if to say "You're free to suggest you're unhappy with the way we are abusing you!" .. gee thanks.... nothing like being able to bad mouth your oppressor... i'll consider that next time i'm scraping for crumbs...

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NRKofOver · Joined: 07 Sep 2002 Posts: 505

The Istanbul bombings made me imagine being Blair or Bush and from my perspective a question would arise immediately:

Are we approaching this whole thing in the wrong way?

But then I realized that reaction drives this US administration (I don't know enough about UK politics to guess about their situation). Our leaders only see violence as a reason to be more violent.

It's obviously not working. Ted Koppel asked a great question on Nightline tonight. Do most people feel that the world is a safer place today than it was prior to 9/11? I think most people would say no, it's not safer.

Maybe our leaders might ask that same question and then re-evaluate their approach.

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debbie mannas · Joined: 30 Sep 2002 Posts: 1352

Quote:
are you sure? my guess, Turkey will now commit the troops it denied america recently...

debbie mannas · Joined: 30 Sep 2002 Posts: 1352

They should've been pursuing al qaeda instead of murdering iraqis. Now all of us are in danger the world over. gah.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world...228440.stm

US issues fresh al-Qaeda warning

Attacks could be 'more devastating' than those of 11 September 2001

The United States has issued a new worldwide alert about the danger of possible terrorist attacks.

The US State Department said there were growing indications that al-Qaeda militants were preparing to strike American interests abroad.

The warning comes in the wake of four blasts in Istanbul over the last week which killed more than 50 people.

US authorities warn that al-Qaeda will attempt to strike in a more devastating manner than on 11 September 2001.

The latest warning suggests US interests abroad are more likely as terrorist violence increases and the Muslim holy month of Ramadan ends.

But the US Government has chosen not to raise the alert level in the US itself.

We cannot rule out that al-Qaeda will attempt a second catastrophic attack within the US

State Department warning

The colour-coded warning remains at amber - the midpoint on the five-level scale, indicating an elevated level of threat.

Al-Qaeda is linked to one of two groups which have claimed responsibility for the recent attacks in Turkey.

The US also accuses al-Qaeda of being behind the attacks on New York and Washington on 11 September 2001.

Worse than 9/11?

The government "remains deeply concerned about the security of US citizens overseas," the State Department warning said.

"We are seeing increasing indications that al-Qaeda is preparing to strike US interests abroad."

"We expect al-Qaeda will strive for new attacks designed to be more devastating than the September 11 attack, possibly involving non-conventional weapons such as chemical or biological agents," says the statement.

"We also cannot rule out that al-Qaeda will attempt a second catastrophic attack within the US."

Turks brave new fears

A similar warning was issued by the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI, warning of "a high volume of reporting indicating possible threats against US interests during the Muslim holiday, Ramadan, and the upcoming holiday season".

This alert specifically warns of al-Qaeda's "continued interest in aviation" in carrying out attacks.

In addition to the recent bombings in Turkey, the alerts follow a suicide attack on 8 November in the Saudi Arabian capital, Riyadh, which killed 17 people.

But it appears they were also prompted by fresh intelligence, says Jon Leyne, BBC correspondent in Washington.

Britain and the US have warned their citizens of further attacks in Turkey and are both advising against non-essential travel there.

NumberOneWorld · Joined: 28 Jun 2002 Posts: 85

ok... some might think this is crazy.. but let me present something in a very simplistic fashion... ie. you do your own research to confirm/deny the possibility.. and let me premise this by saying, i have been a student of history for decades, so my speculation isn't unfounded... it involves understanding the historical timeline of the western world.... ok, in it's simplist form....

in the golden era, as depicted by mythology, the "gods" ruled the earth and man was a hybrid design to labour in the gods' place

as populations grew, "god" handed kingship down to the humans to govern the workings and structure of the machine ie. mankind

these kings were part of the dynastic line decendent of the offspring of the gods...

with gods' help ie. technology, and resources these families retained power over the mass

these arrangements were recorded and contracted... and for the most part, kept secret from the public

as humans populated, lines of power branched off, and working for the boss, regeined over a growing workforce...

rogue factions took hold of geographical regions and battled for the resources of the earth and the societies that lived upon them

rogue dynastic families became the essentially organized crime... circumventing the laws established by the ruling families...

eventually these families break away from the rest and establish their way of doing things... though the fashions are new, they follow ancient ideas and family traditions... for instance, this isn't the first time these families have battled over iraq...

ok... i have to go to a gig, but i'll be back to add to this, as i'm sure it sounds like the babble of a crazy man.... :lol

back...

so the question at hand.. it is possible that american interests help bomb turkey into convincing them not to "reneg" on their deal to send troops... it is if you believe the possiblilty that the bush family is part of a organized crime dynasty that has been active for thousands of years... who burned rome? was it christians or nero convincing everyone to turn against the christians/line of david.... would it be a surprise if it turned out that rulers create their own "disasters" to sway public opinion? in america's very recent past, Pearl harbour was just that...

if a pizzaria doesn't pay the mob its protectionist cash, what happens to them?

when drawing a line between knights templar, freemasonary and america, one is quick to discover that the roots of the templar fortune was based in protectionism... though their public mission was to 'protect the holy roads to sacred sites" essentially it became a process of charging the rich to transport them through dangerous forests.. if they didn't pay the passage, they were robbed by templars further up the path... the legend of Robin Hood is a story of rival dynastic families and the usurping of their income... this way of business is ancient and continues today...

one needs but read the habarabi code to understand how far back the plan goes, and that it has been carried forward for generations..

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Edited by: NumberOneWorld at: 11/23/03 5:27 pm

questionnaire · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 640

N1W, you're mystifying and historicizing the clash of interests that configures today's global conflict. There's no 'ancient linear conspiracy', but there certainly are powerful interests behind the escalation of US aggression and pseudo-colonization around the globe. The historian Norbert Elias called this the 'feudalization' of the globe, a process similar to the one that occurred during the decline of the Roman Empire. The emergence of the global market has eroded the power of the old nation-states and the balance of power that existed between them for most of the 20th century. This presents OPPORTUNIES, just as it did in the crumbling Roman Empire, for private and ethnic interest-groups to establish power-bases for the future and alter the world's geopolitical configuration. The most powerful players are US-based corporate oligarchs, although they are also emerging in other countries, especially Russia and China. Yes, of course there are some family connections and dynastic interests, but this is secondary. These latter-day feudal barbarians must be stopped, because today we are confronting the violence and turmoil of the European feudal era on a global scale with the added delight of hi-tech weapons. The only answer is a return to the principles of social democratic statehood which, globally networked, can exercize legally-instituted control over these stupid, archaic, greedy, barbaric anarcho-capitalists who should be sent back to the 11th century where they belong. They hold back the progress of the human race, because they prove time and time again that we cannot be trusted with, and are therefore not worthy of, the freedom that we all desire.

Q.

NumberOneWorld · Joined: 28 Jun 2002 Posts: 85

Quote:
Yes, of course there are some family connections and dynastic interests, but this is secondary.

Q... i'll suggest that the families are so deep in this, they are virtually undetectable... the "scapegoat" is ancient... enron for example.... throw the mass a villan to take their attentions away from question asking... the crumbling of world powers whether egypt or rome or britain or america all come from the pushing of other economic powers... armies are paid for by... weapons are bought by.... they aren't raised from no where.... one look at the history of midevil europe will confirm the infighting, borrowing and treachary that comes from grasping power....

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