We will never forget

LarreeMP3 · Joined: 12 Apr 2002 Posts: 1935

There is no comparison.

How can the masses suffer from "Master Race Syndrome" in a melting pot?

Edited by: LarreeMP3 at: 7/26/03 7:38 pm

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

In the spirit of Galmins post, I have concluded him to be a wise-acre.

Fear....as in fear of reprisals from the powers that were in charge back then. Control through terror.....almost like the government is the terrorist entity. It was true with Hitler as well as Saddam, Stalin, etc.

Jake Cepheus · Joined: 30 Jun 2002 Posts: 155

Quote:
There is no comparison. How can the masses suffer from "Master Race Syndrome" in a melting pot?

I agree. Would you not agree, however, the melting pot has occassionally singled out certain cultures and groups and subjected them to indefensible discrimination? Certainly nothing on the scale of Nazism, but even in recent decades American have expressly labelled certain races as second-class citizens having inferior rights. And even today, certain forces in the federal government have no qualms about treating young Arab males as if their claim to the Constitution is inferior to that of everyone else.

One of my favorite quotes in all of United States Supreme Court history-

"I dissent, therefore, from this legalization of racism. Racial discrimination in any form and in any degree has no justifiable part whatever in our democratic way of life. It is unattractive in any setting but it is utterly revolting among a free people who have embraced the principles set forth in the Constitution of the United States. All residents of this nation are kin in some way by blood or culture to a foreign land. Yet they are primarily and necessarily a part of the new and distinct civilization of the United States. They must accordingly be treated at all times as the heirs of the American experiment and as entitled to all the rights and freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution."

Justice Murphy, dissenting in Korematsu v. United States. Korematsu was a native-born American citizen who was forcibly interned during World War II because he was of Japanese decent.

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NRKofOver · Joined: 07 Sep 2002 Posts: 505

Larree, my family loves me and won't kick my ass because I have strong opinions. And in all reality, my father, who served 25 years and my little brother who served in Afghanistan have lost a lot of respect for this nation and have no love for the military, but that's a whole different thread.

Quote:
The American people have no inhumane ideology; unless you consider "democracy" a demon ideology.....we have no desire to own any more real estate

Just because you don't think that democracy is a demon ideology doesn't make it right for us to go around the world forcing it upon other nations. Do they have to be 'capitalists' too? Because that can easily be shown as a demon ideology. As far as our real estate grab, we don't conquer and envelop new nations into our country, it's frowned upon these days. But we are not 'liberating' nations out of benevolence. We are doing it for selfish reasons that are often economic and always political. Our government is not run by people who base their decisions on a strong ideology, they base their decisions on pragmatism for the moment. We have something to gain personally from Iraq and Afghanistan at least in the eyes of our leaders.

As far as the melting pot scenario. Yeah, we are a melting pot and we've melted together a whole bunch of different nationalities and races (although there are still problems) pretty well. And the correlation between 1930's Germany and the US today is still not that far off. In this country, we don't have a master race philosophy, we have a 'master nation' philosophy. The vast majority of Americans will easily spout the mantra 'this is the greatest country in the world', and they do it without any logical reasoning to come to such a conclusion. It's brainwashing, pure and simple. There are places in the world (especially post 9/11 and the Patriot Acts) that actually have more freedom than us. And yet that must not be one of the criteria for being the 'greatest country'.

Nationalism doesn't need a 'race' to make it work. Nationalism is an irrational and overblown state of patriotism. Nationalism is having flag sales go up 4000% after 9/11. Nationalism is slogan chanting: -Love it or leave it - Support the troops (often supplemented with 'or you're a traitor) - God Bless America - This is the Greatest Country in the World - Let's Roll. Nationalism is blind dogmatic love of country without concern for what's 'right' and 'wrong'. Nationalism is letting the government change the basic nature of it's own ideals without speaking against it. Nationalism is inherently militaristic (and $450 billion a year on the military apparently isn't enough for us). I believe that the similarities between Germany's growing nationalism in the 30's and what I'm seeing in the US are quite strong.

And honestly, I believe I'm 'patriotic'. I do like America alot. I want to see it become a really great nation, but it's not going to happen as long as the masses keep their eyes closed and dogmatically spout nationalistic slogans and shout down anyone who tries to point out areas for improvement through criticism of the powers-that-be (not that anyone here is doing that, I really respect everyone who frequents this place and absolutely love the conversations).

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debbie mannas · Joined: 30 Sep 2002 Posts: 1352

"...shout down anyone who tries to point out areas for improvement through criticism of the powers-that-be (not that anyone here is doing that...)"

ok, if you say so... :dunno

NRK, I love your tongue-in-cheekiness...

LarreeMP3 · Joined: 12 Apr 2002 Posts: 1935

Quote:
"And the correlation between 1930's Germany and the US today is still not that far off."

You are living on another planet...or in the matrix...or flying over the cuckoo's nest...

LarreeMP3 · Joined: 12 Apr 2002 Posts: 1935

Okay. I am going to try another way. It's like this...

I do not feel that it is wrong to criticize our government. I do feel that it is wrong to criticize our government in an international arena while our troops are in harm's way.

Do you understand that concept?

Galmin · The King has spoken! Joined: 30 Dec 2001 Posts: 1711

Quote:
I do not feel that it is wrong to criticize our government. I do feel that it is wrong to criticize our government in an international arena while our troops are in harm's way.

Do you understand that concept?

Actually, I do not understand that concept.

It sounds like you are saying that criticising the government is the same as criticising the troops, wich it is not.

Or you are suggesting that critique of the government could somehow give the soldiers less planned support, sequrity and safety. Total baloney.. since the campaign that is set in motion now is an entity by itself, moving on it's own volition where all bills are already payed. Neither anyone here, nor a member of goverment can change the situation for the forces currently occupying Iraq.

Would criticising the government because they do not give the international community available more power and thus the coalition forces cannot stop being the occupation force it is according to International Law and get international help and some rest for the weary soldiers be wrong?

Would criticising the goverment because they do not let unpartial weapon inspectors in to help find the WMDs the war actually was about all along be wrong?

Would ANY critique of the government in your eyes be inproper since "troops are in harm's way"?

The troops have my respect, they have a good campaign behind them and are still doing a tough job.

The soldiers are trained professionals and they know that critique directed at the government is directed at the government and not at them. Somehow you fail to make this distinction.

I wish you'd stop treating the troops as if they were all 6-year-olds. They are professionals, know how to do their job and they are, guarranteed, not influenced by what is written on this very BB.

Jake Cepheus · Joined: 30 Jun 2002 Posts: 155

The Vietnam War would have lasted another ten years had it not been for government criticism in the US.

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LarreeMP3 · Joined: 12 Apr 2002 Posts: 1935

It's about keeping our inner struggles on the home turf. That's what voting is for.

Jane Fonda is STILL hated by many for her trip to North Vietnam during the war...and I loved Barbarella.

LarreeMP3 · Joined: 12 Apr 2002 Posts: 1935

"The Vietnam War would have lasted another ten years had it not been for government criticism in the US."

...in.

AQUARIAN AGE · Austrian Peacekeeper Joined: 22 Dec 2001 Posts: 612

Oh, the "more equal" thing again! :ohno

NRKofOver · Joined: 07 Sep 2002 Posts: 505

Larree, I understand what you're saying about the international arena. But unfortunately today, there isn't anything but the international arena.

Also, I write my congressmen/senators, I vote, but I really believe that many people are sheep and without vocal discontent, people will never get to hear the 'other side of the story'. They will blindly accept what they know to be the truth without having all the information it takes to establish a truly informed opinion.

I'm not anti-anything. If I speak out against government actions in war situations, I'm pro-soldier in a way, because I want them out of a deadly environment that I believe is wholly unnecessary.

One of the things I've always tried to impress, especially in discussions like these, is that both sides really believe that their approach is the best possible one for all sides involved. Maybe we're not always right with those opinions, but very few people advocate behavior by our government or ourselves, in the hopes that it creates a society that's worse off. That's why it's ok to disagree, the intentions are always noble, even when they are diametrically opposed. We all want the world to be a better place, we just sometimes disagree on how that will occur. That's why talking is nice.

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Galmin · The King has spoken! Joined: 30 Dec 2001 Posts: 1711

Quote:
One of the things I've always tried to impress, especially in discussions like these, is that both sides really believe that their approach is the best possible one for all sides involved. Maybe we're not always right with those opinions, but very few people advocate behavior by our government or ourselves, in the hopes that it creates a society that's worse off. That's why it's ok to disagree, the intentions are always noble, even when they are diametrically opposed. We all want the world to be a better place, we just sometimes disagree on how that will occur. That's why talking is nice.

questionnaire · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 640

Quote from Memphis Mike:

Quote:
"You will not find an American who has any desire for world domination. We just get up every morning and think about getting our children off to school, etc... "

That's interesting because it tacitly echoes Mike's claim that that is precisely what most Germans were doing during the rise of Hitler. The Nazis were the first political group to use mass media technology to propagate huge lies and distortions. If Bush and his Carlyle Group cronies - who of course have a much more sophisticated and pervasive media engine to work with - are doing much the same, then the American people could be drawn into the 'plan for the American century' without knowing an awful lot about it - until it is too late to back out.

Some of the attitudes displayed on this board suggest that some people don't even want to know about it.

Steve H