Hong Kong....

[memphis mike]

watch your back.....while you are all caught up and obsessed by the USA-Iraq war issues...those of us who are a little bit older know that long-range plans are being made, meetings being held daily and the day will come when Red China drops its heavy hand on the citizens of Hong Kong and life as you know it now will cease to exist and there will be nothing any other country can do to help you....your freedom is at stake and you aren't even the least bit concerned? You are now part of China and China has a creed and it is a matter of time before you are assimilated...and the only songs you will be allowed to sing are dirges....if for one second you believe China is going to take a laissez faire stance with regard to Hong Kong you are sadly mistaken and you better wake up to it now.....You will soon be under the thumb of communism.

Maybe 5 years, maybe 10 years at most, the Communist Party is very patient...but you will be assimilated........

[NRKofOver]

(This message was left blank)

Read all about ME!

Edited by: NRKofOver at: 7/25/03 6:04 pm

[debbie mannas]

in Hong Kong against the govt. 72% of the population are mad at them, and very vocal about it.



And China is very capitalistic, believe me. I think they will slowly loosen up and become more like Hong Kong instead of the other way around. Their treatment of the protest march is proof of this, and also the new premier seems to be a more hands-on guy. He even specifically advised Tung to "listen to the people". !! That was a major surprise.



I am more worried that India will turn into a militant Hindu state, but I hope that the pacifist nature of Indians and the stated tolerance of Hinduism itself will come to the fore, added to the fact that instability is not good for business. But we shall see. Life in India (if you can afford it) is hard but still pretty peaceful, as long as the politicians dont start their hindu/muslim bs again.



I also find it strange that the US govt wants to tell other countries how to govern when it seems to me to be so screwed up there...so much greed, materialism, rigged politics, insularity, corporate games, violence - that's not my definition freedom.



Tell me, again, why your way of life is better than mine. Remember, I've been to the US. We hopped from LA to NJ, to Chicago to Michigan. Every step of the way we were questioned, examined, had to remove our shoes... I understand its for security, but I don't call that freedom, and that's only one little part of it - airport security. I was really scared that someone might get angry all of a sudden and shoot me dead!



I enjoyed the supermarkets, the giant sized packs of everything, the diversity (we met so many people of all mixes and matches, including a Jewish artist, who is a "storyteller" by profession), and most of the people I spoke with are thoroughly disgusted with the way things are going. But then I only visited the big cities, where its a lot more cosmopolitan.



Anyway, I enjoyed myself, but was only too happy to come home - I feel safe here. touchwood.

[memphis mike]

Right back to the US..go start that thread somewhere else--this is a political forum, correct? Well, I started one on Hong Kong and the very first post turns it back to the US. No one even has a desire to discuss anything but the freakin' USA..

Start your own thread somewhere else; this one's about Hong Kong and it's future with the communist party of China..We are not the only show on TV, ya' know!

[memphis mike]

Quote:

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And China is very capitalistic, believe me. I think they will slowly loosen up and become more like Hong Kong instead of the other way around.

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economics of communism can and do include capitalistic ways.

The students at Tienimen(sp?) square thought that China had loosened up a bit too, and they had economically, but when it came down to it the heavy hand of Red China came down upon their heads.....just because you see more and more capitalistic ways in China, don't believe it's headed in the direction of a democracy......

[memphis mike]

you just can't leave the US out of one post can you?

[memphis mike]

what does this have to do with this thread?

Quote:

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Tell me, again, why your way of life is better than mine

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you're obsessed and I just proved it....I give up!

Edited by: memphis mike at: 7/25/03 4:57 am

[LarreeMP3]

Quote:

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"I was really scared that someone might get angry all of a sudden and shoot me dead!"

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You are kidding? Right?

[memphis mike]

take your USA comments to another thread, they don't belong here......it's my thread, I started it, and it had nothing to do with the USA...

[debbie mannas]

naaaaaaaaaaah, I agree that no system is perfect. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes, and a lot of crap goes down in China. Of course they're making plans - they've fed arms to Pakistan and lots of other places...I believe N. Korea too. I am under no illusions about either China or Hong Kong.



However, I think whats happening in the "free world" is not democracy. Its a corrupt system where the corporations/ vested interests get to have the largest say and the people have no voice. The silent majority, the poor and middle class, always get stiffed.



In India, Advani sells hate and fear and the BJP wins... how can a democracy work when people are too insular, unquestioning and apathetic to make it work? and India is the world's largest democracy...



Ultimately, when crime is low, when people have food, healthcare, education for all, and don't live in fear for their lives... is that such a bad system?



PS: dont get me wrong. HK has a LOT of room for improvement. Can you believe that they do not have anti-racial discrimination laws? After much protest over the past few years, a new law will be enacted next year. HR Depts can freely hire only Chinese; the British Council can hire only Brits with impunity...



Also, labour protection is PATHETIC in HK, working hours are long, vacation time is short (7 days min. up to a max of 14 days depending on length of employment). And when I first came here they had no sexual harassment laws either. I believe those were passed only very recently, as were anti-discrimination laws against gender, family status, and age. But not race.



Compared to HK, India has TOO MANY labour laws. People can strike at the drop of a hat (thanks to Gandhi!), labour unions are very very strong. That's mainly whats been keeping india from opening up its markets for so long. I think India has too many freedoms, to the point where someone else's freedom can deprive me of my own... sound familiar?



As to China coming heavy handed over HK... they promised they wouldnt interfere for 50 years after the handover (one country two systems). I dont believe that to be true. I think things will likely change much faster, but we shall see.



I hope you can understand my point that a Govt must first fix its own sins before it can waltz off to other countries and try and foist its systems on them. I havent seen any other country try this stunt but the US since the Brit days of colonialism.

Edited by: debbie mannas at: 7/25/03 5:24 am

[debbie mannas]

[debbie mannas]

"You are kidding? Right? "



We were walking on the street in NYC - the heart of town (near the canadian embassy), went in for a mid-morning break to a McDonalds (under duress, ugh) there were some pretty hostile types lining up, and even at the counters. I looked down all the time, hesitant to meet anyone's eyes. I certainly would not have wanted to get into an argument! And someone was in the loo, someone else wanted to go, and they kept kicking the door...we ate as fast as we could and got out of there.



Actually I know someone who's granddaughter was celebrating her birthday in a club in the US when there was a fight, gunfire, and she, an innocent bystander caught a stray bullet and died. My mom and the grandmother were friends - they event went to Jerusalem together.



I dont feel safe in London either. If you meet someone's gaze, they'll stare you down and ask what you're looking at. My cousin has been mugged twice in London, her car stolen, set on fire... its like violence and vandalism has become a way of life there. I have to say that I feel MUCH MORE unsafe in London.



MM, we are having a civil discussion. You dont agree with my views, so feel free to tell me I'm wrong and WHY. Why are you trying to shut me up? I never try and shut YOU up when you post in MY threads.



In a thread about HK/China, I also am critically discussing India, HK and the UK. Can you not see that?



Eg:



pub189.ezboard.com/fmymp3...=298.topic

[debbie mannas]

I'm also responding to NRK's post:



"Honestly, I think it's odd that this post is coming with regards to Hong Kong, although their future is definitely in question. But as an American, I really believe the freedom in my own country is just as precariously balanced and no one here seems to care at all. "



How come you have no response to that?

[bbchris]

Hi MM! Well before the Handover (1997) my mum & her family were terrified of the "Communists" ruining our lives here in HK, so 2 of my Uncles emigrated to Canada, other cousins also emigrated to Canada. Mum told any business client she could that HK would be awful after 1997 - which I advised her was not very sensible hahaha



To me not much has changed We've swapped a white Governor (elected by London) for a Chinese Chief Executive (elected by Beijing)



Everything Debbie has mentioned about HK is true. I personally am lucky not to be affected by sexual harrassment, racial discrimination etc. etc.



China is far more open than you realise. 1987 was a long time ago MM, we still remember June 4th every year. ALl my goods are produced in China and I regularly travel into small towns etc and find China so different to when I first went (1985)



We do have different passport here than in mainland China - I got mine last year after discovering the third-rate passport from Britain is a pain in the butt to go anywhere in the world (apart from UK & USA) My SAR passport ensures visa-free travel to Europe - I'm now officially a Chinese Citizen!! wheeeeeeeeeeeee



Will write more later - gotta dash - thanks for starting an interesting post MM!

|Blah Blah|Thinking Out Loud|Jane Eliz||Talk Soup |

[LarreeMP3]

Quote:

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a mid-morning break to a McDonalds

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Well, I feel like I'm gonna die every time I go to McDonalds, too!