An Alternate View of Yesterday's "Victory"

debbie mannas · Joined: 30 Sep 2002 Posts: 1352

Yasmin lives in NH. An Iraqi woman with family in Baghdad. She's an American citizen. She has been sharing the news from her family before communications were disrupted and her thoughts as she has watched TV stations besides American. Here are her comments on yesterday's events in Baghdad.

Bobbie Goldman

From Yasmin

Wednesday, April 09, 2003 9:42 PM

--------------------------------------------------

Dear Friends,

Peace upon you all.

Today is a sad day for all the people of Iraq. Baghdad has been raped.

The singing and dancing in the streets .... is a terrible movie.

I can not put it in a better way, than my husband, as he has said;

"the American Army and the Bush administration, have used lots of horrible weapons ...

but the most lethal weapon of all ...is the savage people, that they have unleashed in the streets of

Baghdad, calling them ... the people of Iraq! "

Those people that you see on the streets , are the people of "Althowra city" or as they call it sometimes " Sadam's city".

Those people, do not in any way, resemble the people of Iraq.

They resemble the community of criminals, in Iraq. As you can see, they are not only dancing , but they are also looting, robbing stores, steeling cars, burning places and trashing the streets!

Those people whom you see dancing, were the very same people who used to appear on TV, clapping for Sadam like crazy, when everyone else was against him.

They are opportunists who have no principles at all.

Always with the winner, ... and they sell very cheap.

I don't think that it was a coincident, that the American army has decided to enter Baghdad from this city.

Please ... you can believe what ever you want, just don't call a bunch of looters and murderers , "the people of Iraq".

The people of Iraq are not on the streets, because they are afraid of those maniacs, who were unleashed into the streets, due to the absence of the authority.

Since I was in Iraq, last Feb ... The real people of Iraq, were very afraid of what these savages were planning to do, when there was no government control, because the same thing has happened after war, in 1991.

We don't see people on the streets ... we only see a group of men who are trashing the place and act like idiots.

The movie of "Baghdad Dancing", apparently was successful , because everyone believes it.

And no one is asking about what is happening in the rest of Baghdad.

A lethal weapon indeed.

Now that there is no government ... Baghdad is full of chaos.

The reporters are afraid to move, but they've visited Al-Sinek area ... and there ... it was a different story.

The streets looked dark and deserted ... No one was dancing. There are places that have been bombed, and traces of blood stains covered the road. There were families who are mourning the loss of loved ones ... the

death of a father and three daughter.

The reporters drove in different places in Baghdad ... the streets were empty.

And there was a demonstration by the foreigners in Iraq , and a lady was saying ... "this is all propaganda, many people I know are against any presence of American army in Iraq".

Today, the American soldiers shot at an ambulance, that was carrying some casualties, killing two and injuring three.

In Basra, armed people robbed a bank.

Others burned a grain storage ... when the soldiers were just observing and never attempted to stop it.

They were the reason that there is no government in the first place.

So it is their responsibility to keep the community safe ... they did come to " Free us and take care of us" after all.

The war has not ended in Baghdad, just because Sadam has disappeared ... because, it was never about Sadam.

It is about Iraq.

Iraq is not State No. 51 ... and it never will be.

For more than 200 years, and up until this day, People of America, have been celebrating their independency from the British ... on the 4th of July.

I would say , it is the biggest day for Americans.

Why does anyone expect us to celebrate our invasion ?

I leave you all in peace.

Yasmin

Edited by: debbie mannas at: 4/12/03 12:41:17 am

Seismic Anamoly · Joined: 22 Aug 2002 Posts: 3039

Quote:
...the savage people, that they have unleashed in the streets....

Quote:
They resemble the community of criminals....

Quote:
...a bunch of looters and murderers...

Quote:
....we only see a group of men who are trashing the place and act like idiots.

Quote:
they did come to " Free us and take care of us" after all.

Quote:
... on the 4th of July....I would say, it is the biggest day for Americans. Why does anyone expect us to celebrate our invasion?

Yasmin lives in NH (New Hampshire, I suppose.). An Iraqi woman with family in Baghdad. She's an American Citizen.

NO SHE ISN'T; SHE'S AN IRAQI WOMAN LIVING IN NH.

Edited by: Seismic Anamoly at: 4/11/03 3:30:37 pm

MIKE BURN

SeisMoBigPicAnalolly

The size of your pictures doesn't help in increasing

the meaningless content.

I would kindly ask you to come down to a picture

size of max. 640x480 at 72dpi.

This way modem users are even able to see what you mean,

while the community budget doesn't have to pay for the bandwidth (pics coming from 'forgeign' server, but still

increasing bandwidth consumption for the board).

I have Iraqi friends here... they simply say the same like the

woman in Debbie's article.

That looting is going on everywhere, while American and British service talk about orders "that's not my business"...

....they still protect the Ministery for Oil in Kirkuk (funny ain't it?).

Here you have a few more Arab comments:

Quote:
The aerial bombardment in the town of Gaza in the past 48 hours and the targeting of Palestinians with US weapons is similar to the ongoing conspiracy against Iraq.

Al-Thawrah - Syria

The US war on Iraq is illegitimate, and this is why Syria condemned it... The US is still violating international law by attacking Iraq.

Oman - Oman

News on the war has now been monopolised by Western media. This is the start of international participation in the colonisation of Iraq and its people.

Al-Ittihad - UAE

Baghdad is now under US control. But where are Iraq's weapons of mass destruction which justified the war on Iraq?

Al-Khalij - UAE

This is what ALL is about!

We aim to change this. We aim to make the case and rally support for American global leadership.

Sound Of LoMo · Joined: 22 Jun 2002 Posts: 92

I'm sorry to upset anyone but the attitude of "some" Americans on this board makes me sick, and their ignorance to much to bare. I'm a sensative and caring person and everyone i know here in the UK agrees with me. I don't think you appreciate how many people in the UK are against this war and against OUR DUMBASS PRIME MINISTERS participation. America is becoming the most disliked country on the planet from where we are sitting! THE NEW WORLD ORDER MY ASS!

YOU EGOTISTICAL AMERICAN PATRIOTS ARE BECOMING TO MUCH , AND YOU ARE TRYING TO HARD TO GET OTHER COUNTRIES TO THINK THE SAME AS YOU. WORLD F.U.C.K.I.N.G DOMINATION EH?

:count

LoMo Productions :colorf

Edited by: Sound Of LoMo at: 4/11/03 7:04:46 pm

Seismic Anamoly · Joined: 22 Aug 2002 Posts: 3039

"The Internet is a Bathroom Stall Wall....Anyone can write Anything on it." - Eric Zorn, Chicago Tribune

Keep Scribbling, Protectors of the "World Order".

Oh...before I forget...have Yasmin surf over to

THIS PAGE FOR THE 1ST PROMO TUNE ON THE POP/ROCK CHARTS ALL WEEK

Or

THIS OR ANY STATION PAGE FOR THE TUNE AT THE TOP OF EVERY STATION AT MP3.COM THIS WEEK

I Know You And Saddam Will Love It.

Till July.

MIKE BURN

Seismo is blind for "the other" reality......

(Today, cheering kid in Basra)

LarreeMP3 · Joined: 12 Apr 2002 Posts: 1935

What are the residency laws in the UK? I want to move there just so I can vote for Tony Blair in the next PM election. The man has balls.

LarreeMP3 · Joined: 12 Apr 2002 Posts: 1935

KIRKUK, Iraq, April 11 — At the first Friday morning market after the end of Saddam Hussein’s rule over this northern Iraqi city, awash in oil and a kaleidoscope of ethnic groups, an Arab, a Kurd and a Turkoman readily defined Kirkuk’s aspirations and pitfalls.

KIRKUK SURVIVED ITS collapse on Thursday remarkably intact. Of more than 100 oil wells in and around the city, only one belched thick black smoke into the blue sky, a casualty of quickly retreating Iraqi forces or a stray U.S. bomb. No one seemed to know which.

Also remarkable was the sense of calm prevailing in the city. Small-scale looting of buildings associated with Saddam’s rule continued. But private shops and homes remained untouched, awaiting their owners’ return. In the central bazaar, which sits under Kirkuk’s ancient citadel, it was business as usual. And that’s the way local merchants say it should be. After years of Saddam’s tinkering with Kirkuk’s ethnic balance — banishing Kurds and Turkomans and resettling Arabs in their place — it was time to come together.

“These were the regime’s policies,” said Saman Othman, a Kurdish cigarette trader who said he welcomed a chance to put his degree in English language to practice. “We don’t blame each other. Kurds, Turkomans and Arabs have lived here for centuries. We get along.”

‘THE BAD PEOPLE ARE GONE’

Other residents from Kirkuk’s main ethnic groups concurred. They said Saddam’s attempts to bolster the Arab population would simply become a part of history.

“Good people are everywhere here,” said Ahmed Hussein, an Arab who was jailed by the regime for draft dodging. “The bad people are now gone.”

“Look,” said Farouq Jabar, “I am a Turkoman. Here is an Arab, and here is a Kurd,” he said, pulling two other market sellers toward him. “We will live together, just like we always have.”

When Kurdish rebels, followed by U.S. special operations forces, rolled into Kirkuk on Thursday, almost the only shots fired rang out in celebration. The Iraqi army, and officials of Saddam’s Baath Party, made a quick retreat as Iraqi defenses around Kirkuk crumbled.

Kurds, Turkomans and Arabs, which represent nearly equal parts of Kirkuk’s population, said Friday that they welcomed the Kurdish forces. But all agreed that a continued Kurdish military presence could be detrimental to Kirkuk’s future. Although the Kurdish forces have showed discipline by preventing large-scale looting and chaos, they are expected to be replaced by U.S. troops — a nod to Turkey, Iraq’s northern neighbor, which sees Kurdish control of Kirkuk, and the city’s Turkoman population, as a springboard to an independent Kurdistan.

With a large Kurdish population of its own, Turkey fears its Kurds would follow suit. “We need to see more Americans,” said Mustafa Mohammed, a 31-year-old Turkoman food trader. “The Americans will see that we all get full rights.”

RonOnGuitar · Joined: 08 Jan 2003 Posts: 1916

Just a suggestion, Debbie. You might want to edit out the person's email addy from the message out of "nettiquite", if nothing else.

On the content -

"Yasmin lives in NH"

What does she think of those who, unlike her, had to live under a evil dictatorship, until their day of freedom?

"savage people"

That pretty much sums it up. But as you said, she is out of touch with Iraqis in Iraq. Saddam's "Information Minister" in his final days of denial of reality sounded more lucid - and he was right there. This uninformed and misguided lass can certainly work to restore whatever's left of the Saddam family back into power; but to be frank, her enthusiasm for such things is driven by the fact she is quite safely abusing her very comfortable stay in the US clear on the other side of the world - again, away from the reality of the Iraqi people in Iraq and dependent only on extreme, uninformed emotionalism.

=Ron=

debbie mannas · Joined: 30 Sep 2002 Posts: 1352

You have made no comments on the following:

1. The depleted uranium that is going to be left behind for generations to come, causing cancers, abortions and deformities

2. The current raging looting and thrashing that is in fact a reality now in iraq.

3. The fact that the US has a stinking record for post regime changes.

4. The unexploded cluster bombs lying around the streets of iraq, exploding at random now and waiting for children to pick up. literally landmines.

5. The fact that because someone is living in another country that doesnt make them belong any less to their home country. As an American living abroad, did you feel any less involved with issues in your country??

6. The fact that living in another country doesn't take away your right to criticise it. My God, you should see the expats living here thrashing Asia/HK and talking down to the people who live here, mostly out of ignorance. What say you to these types of people?? They still stay because of the money.

7. Everybody knew that the US would "win" this war. I did not for a moment think anything else. That does not change the fact that it is wrong. And where is Saddam? I hope he's dead, but if not, where is he?

8. I am withholding judgement of the outcome of this war for the next few months. It is far from over. And even if all did end well, it would still not make the preemptive strike right.

9. WMDs?

Take a walk in somebody elses shoes someday.

Edited by: debbie mannas at: 4/12/03 12:48:24 am

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

Debbie, I'm afraid you have some misinformation to a certain extent.

1. Delpleted Uranium: I don't think you understand what this is and what it is used for. (I mentioned this in a previous thread.) For some real (not media-hype style) information, go here: www.gulflink.osd.mil/faq_17apr.htm

Suffice it to say, there is very little real danger.

2. Yes, looting etc is a problem.....one that the powers that be are aware of, and are attempting to stop. Unfortunately, this is one of the fall-outs of the liberation of the Iraqi people. When an organization is restructured (in this case without Sadaam), it needs to be put back together. The Iraqi Police force will have to be re-built.

3. I don't know about a "stinking" record. Both Japan and Germany seem to be doing OK.

4. Unexploded cluster bombs? Very few....especially when compared to the vast amount of mining good-old Sadaam did without any help from anybody else. Those ARE literally landmines. Most of the post-war injuries/deaths will be on his hands I'm afraid.

5. I don't think America allows dual citizenship. Either you're in or you're out. And her attitude is a good example of why. Go read the oath of citizenship for America and you tell me. If she really is concerned, what is she still doing here? If I were her, I'd get back there and do what I could. One of the things I DON'T do when I'm abroad is talk negatively about the country I happen to be in. In some places it's a good way to end up dead.

6. You're right. Living in a country doesn't take away your right to criticize it.....at least here in America. If she had tried it in Iraq before the war, SHE'D probably be dead. What are expats???

I hope this "answers" some of your points.

debbie mannas · Joined: 30 Sep 2002 Posts: 1352

Dreamtone, I'm afraid YOU are the slightly misinformed one.

"1. Delpleted Uranium: I don't think you understand what this is and what it is used for. (I mentioned this in a previous thread.) For some real (not media-hype style) information, go here: www.gulflink.osd.mil/faq_17apr.htm

Suffice it to say, there is very little real danger."

This is BS. There is PLENTY of danger. Enclosed cities have been BOMBARDED day after day with shells coated with DU and are full of its dust, Baghdad in particular. There is little chance of it not being inhaled.

Imagine living in the vicinity of one or even bombed buildings - you breathe that stuff for months - years if its not cleaned up - which is has not been in iraq after the last gulf war. Now imagine that stuff being radioactive...

The US govt would have everyone believe that it is safe because it is in their best interest to do so. Plenty of studies say it is NOT safe. I suggest you read more disinterested parties’ analysis. I don’t think you've been reading MY posts about DU:

Would you want to be in Iraq breathing in all that dust, if it’s so safe?? After reading these articles, would you continue to live in a place bombarded by DU or would you get out as fast as you could, if that were possible? Remember for many Iraqis, getting out is not an option.

www.iacenter.org/depleted/du.htm

english.pravda.ru/main/20...39269.html

www.miltoxproj.org/DU/dupd.htm

"2. Yes, looting etc is a problem.....one that the powers that be are aware of, and are attempting to stop. Unfortunately, this is one of the fall-outs of the liberation of the Iraqi people. When an organization is restructured (in this case without Sadaam), it needs to be put back together. The Iraqi Police force will have to be re-built. "

If it was seen as one of the fallouts, why has it not been planned for? Why is it being allowed to continue unabated. Anyway, time will tell how post war iraq pans out - long after the world has forgotten and moved on. Like I said, the US has a stinking record.

"3. I don't know about a "stinking" record. Both Japan and Germany seem to be doing OK."

You clearly have no knowledge of the dozens of other regime changes by the US - direct or by proxy. However, don’t take my word for it, do your own search on US regime changes.

abcnews.go.com/sections/w...21203.html

hnn.us/comments/3983.html

www.ncf.ca/coat/our_magaz...istory.pdf

“4. Unexploded cluster bombs? Very few....especially when compared to the vast amount of mining good-old Sadaam did without any help from anybody else. Those ARE literally landmines. Most of the post-war injuries/deaths will be on his hands I'm afraid.”

Again, you seem to have not much information about this topic either.

www.cbc.ca/news/iraq/issu...30407.html

www.iansa.org/news/2003/m...w18303.htm

www.commondreams.org/views01/0226-06.htm

www.zmag.org/arnovecluster.htm

"5. I don't think America allows dual citizenship. Either you're in or you're out. And her attitude is a good example of why. Go read the oath of citizenship for America and you tell me. If she really is concerned, what is she still doing here? If I were her, I'd get back there and do what I could. One of the things I DON'T do when I'm abroad is talk negatively about the country I happen to be in. In some places it's a good way to end up dead."

??? ooof! Her attitude??? Not all Americans approve of their governments' policies. But go ahead, give us your definition of patriotism anyway. :laugh

"6. You're right. Living in a country doesn't take away your right to criticize it.....at least here in America. If she had tried it in Iraq before the war, SHE'D probably be dead. What are expats???"

She’d probably be dead or imprisoned if she were in Saudi, Libya, Iran, Yemen, Zimbabwe, N.Korea, China, Israel (heard of Mordechai Yanunu??)…. And a hundred other places. So is the US going to "liberate" them all then?

Expats are “Expatriates” people living in a foreign [cheaper] country, but paid using the living standards of home and then some. (expat packages).

I had no questions. Your "answers" clearly show that you and others on this board don’t want to know things that might leave you questioning your government or make you uncomfortable. You’d rather hear comfortable lies and not look further - or perhaps you agree with them?

RonOnGuitar · Joined: 08 Jan 2003 Posts: 1916

Hi Debbie -

<depleted uranium>

I'm not sure what your claim to expertise is here, but I hope you'll understand my estimation that the expertise of WHO supercedes your personal beliefs:

<<"Under most circumstances it's probably not going to have any strong health effect," Leeka Kheifeps, head of the radiation program at the World Health Organization, told United Press International.

Brian Spratt, in the department of infectious diseases at St. Mary's Hospital in London, who served as chairman of a panel of experts that reviewed the health effects of depleted uranium for the Royal Society, said most specialists in this area "probably feel that if the exposure is low or moderate, the (health) risks are not very great."

However, "if the intakes are high," there could be a risk of lung cancer or damage to the kidneys in later years, Spratt said.

This could happen in some of the friendly-fire incidents that have occurred in Iraq, when heavily armored coalition forces' tanks are struck by missiles containing depleted uranium. Small fragments of the metal might become aerosolized and inhaled by soldiers surviving the attack.

"Those would be the kind of people we would worry about, Spratt said.>>

www.upi.com/view.cfm?Stor...0652-2989r

So, the only real risk of major concern is that of the coalition soldiers being hit by their own shells. Even then, I suspect that being hit by the artillery itself is probably of more concern to the soldiers than worries based on unwarranted speculations. A sense of porprotion needs to be cultivated in such matters, you're very likely being exposed to much more dangerous levels of radiation just sitting at your PC! If a person tends toward unwarranted panic in lieu of rational, linear analysis, here's a link to British Airways detailing the dangers of radioactivity and flying that they better avoid;

www.britishairways.com/tr...blic/en_#5

I think in not being able to come up with a rational reason why the Iraqi people should not have been freed, you're grasping at some might tiny straws there. SARS, in comparison, is something to fret about if one thinks porportionally in terms of tangible danger.

<looting and thrashing>

Well, if he's still alive Saddam can afford new golden bidets and build well-guarded 3-story statues of himself that nobody will be allowed to "trash". But when ya enslave and torture a whole populace, that's not a suprising reaction to be expected from the victims. It will take time for the interim Iraqi government to properly handle the day-to-day cops & robbers type stuff. While the Brits, Americans, other coalition and certainly the free Iraqis themselves have worked a miracle in a very short time, it can't all be done overnight.

At any rate, what to the freed Iraqis say about their actions?:

"The looting was conducted in almost total silence, with everyone concentrating on his or her task.

Similar scenes unfolded at the house of Saddam's cousin Ali Hassan al-Majid, nicknamed "Chemical Ali" for his role on the 1998 gassing of Kurds in Halabja.

Women veiled in black walked off with armfuls of wall sconces and chandeliers. Enas, a poor girl from Saddam City, screamed with joy as her brother Arkan bagged a set of gold-plated panels from above the fireplace.

"I have no house, but these murderers were living like kings," she said. "Now we will take what is ours."

Another man who described himself as a poet said he was removing two walking sticks as a gesture of contempt toward their erstwhile owner, who sometimes walked with a stick."

"I'm not here to loot the house of this criminal.... I took these two things as a symbol to humiliate him," said the man who called himself Abu Eyaih.

"Looters ransack homes of Saddam's inner circle"

www.canada.com/national/f...CE087A9B1E

All in all, outside of the lass in NH and in few caves occupied by psychotic nutcases, not many tears were shed over Saddam & his fled thugs riches being plundered by the very people they had enslaved.

<<the US has a stinking record for post regime changes>>

Already asked if you thought Germany & France are "stinking"? You'd probably not get too much of a fight on that conclusion from Americans, Brits and other free people these days! Otherwise, you're at a complete loss to substantiate your odd claim. I'd be interested in knowing which nations that have been liberated at great cost are what you believe to be "stinking" countries.

<<unexploded cluster bombs lying around the streets of iraq>>

If anyone is aware of any, why not report their location so they can be safley defused? BTW, most of Iraq is sand - the desert is not paved. Again, it sounds like you're grasping at fancifully exaggerated straws.

<<because someone is living in another country that doesnt make them belong any less to their home country. As an American living abroad, did you feel any less involved with issues in your country??>>

Never lived abroad - like your friend I prefer America to anywhere else in the world! At any rate, I wouldn't presume to announce my personal rants as being the voice of a whole people. I think well of myself, but not *that* well.

<The fact that living in another country doesn't take away your right to criticise it.>

The gal can rant, rave, praise Saddam, organize anti-American protests, etc. as long as she is permitted to remain. She probably safer in her support for the fallen dictatorship here than she would be at the hands of Iraqis who actually had to live under Saddam's tryanny. It's very easy to support a dictatorship when you don't have to live under it. It is the liberated Iraqi people, for whom she disgust and disdain, that she has good reason to fear now. The the ones who did not benefit from the dictatorship would be the ones she has to

answer to - that is, if she were to ever actually visit Iraq someday! As has been pointed out, the gal is living a life of very comfy, but colossal, hypocrisy.

<<you should see the expats living here thrashing Asia/HK and talking down to the people who live here, mostly out of ignorance>>

No need to - as is so vividly illustrated here , we have such hypocritical ill-mannered whiny types in the US doing the same thing!

<That does not change the fact that it is wrong>

Sorry, but the now-free Iraqi people differ with you on that!

<And where is Saddam?>

Not in Baghdad and obviously not in power. Outside of the al-jazeerah offices, nobody really cares.

<<I am withholding judgement of the outcome of this war for the next few months. It is far from over.>>

As I said, it was indeed a miracle very quickly wrougnt by the Allies and the formerly enslaved Iraqi people. However, even though Germany was liberated in 1945, the liberation wasn't complete until 1989 when the Wall came down under the first President Bush (as demanded by preceding President Reagan).

Freedom is an ongoing work-in-progress. It is a commodity that does not fare well in a marketplace where "Instant gratification" would rule as a measure of all things.

<<it would still not make the preemptive strike right.>>

All military strikes are preemptive by their very nature. No country waits to be a victim.

<<WMDs?>>

What about them? We alreay know that Germany, Russia and France were the largest suppliers of such illegal weaponry by Iraq's own admission, so they were flowing to Saddam. The second that Saddam shot of missles into Kuwait that he claimed he didn't have provided clear evidence of deception on banned weapons. Even if he didn't have a working hydrogen bomb, that is not sole reason for liberation of Iraq. e.g. with Iraqi sponsered terorism out of business, the world will be that much safer. And I don't know that you'd wanna argue that the Iraqi people don't deserve freedom and belong under a saddam family dictorship. That would be as prejudiced as believing that the Iraqi people are incapable of running their own nation, as is often posited as an "reason" against their liberation.

<Take a walk in somebody elses shoes someday.>

Well, New Hampshire shoes are pretty comfy, being American and all. But I did take a vicarious trip in a some real Iraqis shoes just the other day:

A shoe sits on the decapitated head of a statue of Saddam Hussein in a Baghdad street one day after the fall of the Iraqi leader's regime.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/030411/241/3rm4w.html

=Ron=

Phil Frazier · Joined: 04 Aug 2002 Posts: 823

"I'm sorry to upset anyone but the attitude of "some" Americans on this board makes me sick, and their ignorance to much to bare. I'm a sensative and caring person and everyone i know here in the UK agrees with me. I don't think you appreciate how many people in the UK are against this war and against OUR DUMBASS PRIME MINISTERS participation. America is becoming the most disliked country on the planet from where we are sitting! THE NEW WORLD ORDER MY ASS!"

I feel the need to express my views.

It's Sad

The USA helped Saddam gain power in the early 1980's. The USA , UK, Germany, France, Russia, China and other nations supplied weapons to Iraq to fight Iran. When the Kurds were gassed there was no outcry from any nation. When the Shiites were slaughtered after G. Bush Sr. encoraged them to rise up but lifted not one finger to helped them, the nations just said, "Oh well." They all helped the regime stay in power.

The USA instructed the ambassador to Iraq to tell Saddam that the USA didn't interfere with his proposed invasion of Kuwait because he felt Kuwait was stealing oil from Iraq. It was a setup. The Western powers helped Sadam keep the lower class Iraqis, mainly Shiites and Kurds down.

Now the very same powers that helped in keeping the regime in power and the majority of the people in poverty and misery have liberated them. It would amusing if not were not so pathetically sad.

Unfortunately the story of Afghanistan is similar. The USA financed and helped build up Osama bin Laden. They gave tacit aproval of the Taliban.

If one studies USA policy history one will find a pattern of actions in a lot of countries where the USA supported what are now perceived as "evil" people.

The American people do not want to ackowledge facts. They wish to live in a fairy tale where America is seen as the Good Knights in shining armor spreading freedom and kindness around the globe.

Phil on Artistlaunch

Phil on 1Sound

IntoMusic.co.uk

Sound Click

BeSonic

Social Spit · Joined: 28 Sep 2002 Posts: 251

Are you quoting from, Phil?