Germany is now one of the military laggards in NATO....

[Seismic Anamoly]

Quote:

---

"Once the United States' strongest ally, Germany is now one of the military laggards in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Equipment is old and increasingly in need of repair. Problem is, replacement parts are hard to find. On average, Bundeswehr trucks are 25 years old."

---

Not to worry; NATO won't be around much longer......

Quote:

---

"Germany, France, Belgium and Luxembourg – all opposed to the U.S.-led war in Iraq – are scheduled to meet on April 29 in Brussels to discuss defense integration and cooperation. But even before the summit gets underway, it has come under criticism both in Germany and abroad for alienating those EU countries that supported the war and potentially jeopardizing Europe’s commitment to NATO. Britain, Spain and Italy remain highly skeptical of the summit's motives."

---

....and you certainly don't need the US Dollars spent in Germany by all that dispicable, horrendous US military activity; you can spend your Marks updating that outdated equipment...if you have any, that is....

Quote:

---

"Germany’s economy has in recent years ground to a halt under the weight of its generous welfare system and constricting labor market policies. Economic growth slowed to only 0.2 percent in 2002, its lowest annual rate since a recession in 1993, and German unemployment is running at around 11 percent. As if to highlight the urgency of undertaking the painful reforms, Schröder’s government on Monday also cut its official growth forecast for 2003. Instead of its previous forecast of 1 percent, the Economy Ministry now expects Europe’s largest economy to expand only 0.75 percent this year. But the downward revision is still higher than more pessimistic forecasts from the International Monetary Fund, the OECD, European Commission and Germany's six leading institutes, which expect the economy to expand between 0.3 and 0.5 percent in 2003."

---

Awww...Tough Break.



Ah, well...maybe Russia will lend you a few Rubles...then again, maybe not.







ARTICLE



ARTICLE



ARTICLE

[Galmin]

Quote:

---

Bundeswehr trucks are 25 years old

---

Wasn Schiet



Well, the SK and Jagdkommando are good enough to have around as mopping crew for a long period of time when the main forces pulls out, the partisan warfare starts and things actually get dangerous.



Do you know, SA, what country, after the US, has the most troops dedicated to international terrorism (through "Enduring Freedom")? Hmm?

Quote:

---

you can spend your Marks updating that outdated equipment...if you have any, that is....

---

Noone has any Marks these days, Mr Economist.

Quote:

---

Awww...Tough Break.



Ah, well...maybe Russia will lend you a few Rubles...then again, maybe not.

---

Yep, it's a beotch.



"grand canyon of trade deficits".

A several Trillion Deficit in the National Budget Stampede.



Oh, wait, that's not Germany!!

Edited by: Galmin  at: 4/29/03 10:45:33 am

[Seismic Anamoly]

Quote:

---

Mr Economist.

---

I LOVE it when people call me petty little juvenilistic names; confirms I really pissed'em off...

Quote:

---

..after the US...

---

It's Good to be the King; Damn Good.

Quote:

---

Noone has any Marks these days...

---

That's right...it's the Euro now, isn't it? So insignificant I forgot all about it. Imagine that.

Quote:

---

A several Trillion Deficit in the National Budget Stampede.

---

You're Swedish and you're preaching Economics?



SWEDEN: A Nightmare Of Socialism



Swedes less well off than poorest Americans



Sweden: From Capitalist Success to Welfare-State Sclerosis



The Swedish "Model" Never Worked



Sweden's Corporations and Brains Flee for More Favorable Shores



Excellent.



Bye Now.

[Galmin]

Quote:

---

That's right...it's the Euro now, isn't it? So insignificant I forgot all about it. Imagine that.

---

Hardly. You're simply uninformed. Imagine that.

[Seismic Anamoly]

Quote:

---

Hardly. You're simply uninformed.

---

You know what they say...Opinions are like AHoles...everybody's got one.



And sometimes you meet one on a BBS.



Imagine that.

[MIKE BURN]

Oh well... the EURO is close to $ 1.11 today.



Insignificant.





Anyway... we Germans may have a very reduced military budget (forced by the allies after WWII), but let's see it this

way... with our liliput budget compared to the U.S., we do operate the 2nd. biggest military operation in the world (Afghanistan, Kosovo, Bosnia, Somalia etc.).



Furthermore... we don't have problems with spare/replacement parts... how can we, while

we produce the stuff not only for us alone in our

country, but also deliver the most sophisticated

weapon systems to the world (without really wanting that).



Patriot-Rockets to Israel, Tornado's to the U.K., Fuchs-Tanks

to Kuwait, the USA and Israel, laser-guided-bombs systems to the USA..., ultra-precise satellite-optics and jet-engines... oh well... too many to mention.



Let's say over here quality counts. Why use 46 U.S. rifles

and tons of ammunition, while you simply hit with a single bullet every time with a Heckler&Koch at half the weight

and a precise guy at the trigger?



BTW... do you know who are the most wanted pilots and technical operations dudes for Awacs and Tornado airplanes?

[Seismic Anamoly]

Quote:

---

we don't have problems with spare/replacement parts...

---

I didn't write the article; a German did. He must be a liar.

Quote:

---

Since the end of the Cold War, Germany, along with many other NATO allies, let its defense spending languish, choosing to invest in social programs instead.

---

Again from this lying German article..that explains the lilliput budget.

Quote:

---

Why use 46 U.S. rifles and tons of ammunition, while you simply hit with a single bullet every time with a Heckler&Koch at half the weight....

---

Agreed; that's why we use 46 M21's, M24's or M40's (ranging from 4 to 6 KG each) with 46 precise guys vs. 1 H&K MSG 90, G3 SG/1, HK 33 SG/1, or PSG 1 (ranging from 6 to 8 KG each) with 1 guy...totally awesome.

Quote:

---

2nd biggest....

---

It IS Good to be the King.

[DreamTone7]

2nd biggest according to what source, please?

[MIKE BURN]

Quote:

---

Agreed; that's why we use 46 M21's, M24's or M40's (ranging from 4 to 6 KG each) with 46 precise guys vs. 1 H&K MSG 90, G3 SG/1, HK 33 SG/1, or PSG 1 (ranging from 6 to 8 KG each) with 1 guy...totally awesome.

---

SeismoProlly When you really come over here in July,

you will be filled up with lots of beer, until you say:



"I didn't knew, the Heckler&Koch Bundeswehr-Gewehr G36K,

Kal. 5,56 mm, has a weight of 3.4 kilograms.............









...I stay with facts, not with assumptions.

[Seismic Anamoly]

Quote:

---

I stay with facts, not with assumptions.

---

The fact is...that ain't no sniper rifle, Einstein , and never will be. And .223 Remington is the correct calibre rating; 5.56 mm is just the NATO expression for it. That way, we can use your ammo after you get your kandy asses kicked. It was planned that way from the beginning.



It's Good to be the King.



And I'm not coming for the beer.



Bye now.

[MIKE BURN]

Are you feeling unsafe or why are you coming up with this 'Einstein' nonsense?



Hint: When I'm talking about weapons, have in mind that

my dad was three times German Champion in several

sharp-shooting disciplines.



The caliber is called 5.56 mm cadence 750 by the manufacturer AND the NATO. Nobody calls it 'Remmington' over here.



We were also not talking about explicit sniper rifles.



The weapon above is good for hitting with precision,

also it is not the lightest weapon in the H&K family

and not a explicit sniper rifle.



A real featherweight is the G36C 5.56mm x 45







Now you don't want to tell me, that you don't hit with this weapon?



If so... try the PSG1 7,62mm x 51 (Polygonal).







There's a reason for it's weight of 8.1. kilograms.



You'll HIT with extreme precision multiple targets!



Bye Professor Bang, bang, bang.

[MIKE BURN]

Quote:

---

WHY SO MUCH FOR THE PSG?



by John Metzger



A bunch of the boys were wooping it up in room 313 at the Sahara Hotel. SOF's Fourth Annual Convention was just starting to brew downstairs in the Casino. John Satterwhite was pulling something out of a gun case on the coffee table.

"Like to see the new HK sniper rifle?" he asked. Sure we did. Everyone in the room liked guns. All eyes turned to the large black case on the table. Satterwhite pulled it out. A hush fell across the room. Even the drunkest among us caught himself in mid-stutter and shut up. The convention staff-types, range officers and match shooters filling the room slowly staggered toward this amazing-looking weapon, now propped up on its tripod on the glass table. Everyone picked it up, held it, dry fired it, stared at it and inevitably asked, "how much?"



Satterwhite answered, "Five thousand dollars."



He wasn't kidding. Everyone looked sort of disappointed.



When Satterwhite sent in this story, Brown left a cryptic note scribbled in the margin: "Why does this gun cost so @#%$ much?" Indeed. Why five thousand dollars? The question ate at me. But about four months later at the S.H.O.T. Show in Dallas I finally got a straight answer right from the H&K people themselves.



"Hey, guys. Why the high price?" I asked the reps at the booth.



"Because it's an HK."



"Ha, ha. No, really?"



Well, they really didn't have an answer.



"It will shoot under one minute of angle out of the box," the reps continued. "The scope alone is worth between $1,200 and $1,500. We gurarantee that the gun will at least equal all manufacturers' accuracy claims." (It is typical of European ammunition manufacturers to market ammo with specific accuracy claims.) Do those answers justify the price?



Five-thousand dollars is a lot of money. But the PSG 1 is a lot of gun. My conclusion? If you are not interested in owning one of the most accurate semiauto .308 sniper rifles in the world, don't buy it.

---

[Galmin]

M21? The M14 variation. Build of '69?

Good rifle, though a tad outdated.

Wasn't that rifle replaced in the 80's?



Are you in OPFOR or the National Guard?

Quote:

---

NATO expression

---

More correctly the metric denomination.



PSG-1! There's an extremely accurate semi-auto if there ever was one. 50 rounds - 1MOA.



You'll not get one for US$ 5000.-, Mike, you'll get half of it in the most basic version .

Edited by: Galmin  at: 4/30/03 3:50:17 pm

[MIKE BURN]

I know... 10,000 bucks is rather normal



I quoted the article for some original American emotions of

the "PSG-effect"

[MIKE BURN]

Ok, ok.... here's the reason why the German economy is on it's way down. Let's be fair

Quote:

---

The accuracy standard that all PSG-1's must meet is 50 rounds of match ammo into an 80mm (3.14" circle at 300m. (1 MOA). Keep in mind this is 50 rounds, not a 3 shot group. The PSG-1 is popular in some Special Op units and elite anti-terrorist units.



It really does not lend itself well to the military environment because of 2 reasons.



First it ejects the shells about 10 meters, and this can easily give away a position, and also is a pain to try and police your brass to prevent leaving a target identifier.



The second reason is that it only can be fitted with the Hensoldt 6x42 sight. No other sight can be used (Short of grinding off the mount and welding on your own type base). The 6x is only set up to be used out to 600 meters, and thats the start of the optimal engagement range for military snipers

(From 600-700 meters).



It is an outstanding Police Sharpshooter weapon, but most agencies cannot afford the price tag, which is why it usually shows up in only the most elite units.

---