Looks-ism

bbchris · Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Looks

I actually edited out some serious points in my previous post Phil for reasons I'd rather not reveal here.

Yes yes so apparently there is this 'perfect symmetry' that appeals to all.

Yet how many of you have met someone and thought 'Ugh, they're ugly!' yet when you got to know them, found them somewhat attractive if not even beautiful?

And the reverse I find very true, I meet many 'models' and they are amazing to look at, then when I talk to them, if their personality isn't nice or if they are stupid, they start looking less amazing to look at. You can only stare at biceps and into blue eyes for so long......

Phil Frazier · Joined: 04 Aug 2002 Posts: 823

Of course, beauty can be only on the surface but not necessarily. I feel that the looks thing has eroded the fabric of music. It permeates so deeply now that we judge people on almost only that basis. I know that I am real effected by people's looks. It has been this way for thousands of years but the topic I am speaking about is a bit different in that regard because it didn't used to be that way, except for most likely mainstream pop music.

In Jazz, Folk and Blues it still isn't as dominant but in Country it has taken over as well. This is what my concept is. Other factors, aside from musical attributes shouldn't dominate music but that is changing.

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debbie mannas · Joined: 30 Sep 2002 Posts: 1352

I find a great many people beautiful. Martina Navratilova for instance. Not many people can understand that.

Yeah strange to talk to a beautiful and vapid person

Phil, those were the days of a voice over the radio. Pure sound that made you feel. These are the days of MTV and visual aids, where image is everything and talent not much. There are a lot of other things too such as age, race, etc etc. that play a factor. Aging is perceived as ugly. And there is some serious racial bigotry in music too.

what a world.

Phil Frazier · Joined: 04 Aug 2002 Posts: 823

Oh yeah,age-ism is a big factor all over but in the music business it is definetely leaning heavier on women. That topic has been discuss quite a few times on various BBs. Kieth Richards once remarked something like, "How come people put R&R performers down that are over 50 and still playing but not Blues and Jazz performers that are older? That's a good question.

I feel that just because a person is born with what society deems as beauty it isn't quite fair that they get more advantages than others but then life is rarely fair is it?

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bbchris · Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Absolutely

I was told the first music video played on MTV was "Video Killed the Radio Star" by Buggles. So true.

Would Buddy Holly have made it on MTV?

I did have a conversation with a girlfriend a couple of years ago and we noticed that not one single female artist was fat. Only Macy Grey and some other black female artists can get away with it. You gotta be slim. Because slim is perceived as beautiful. That's insanity too. All part of the lookism you're describing Phil.

I DO market my looks but I also know I have to keep the audience interested - you can only look at someone for so long before you're bored! :aua

I have a large group of female fans too - not cause I or they are lesbians but because I am singing THEIR songs too. And no I don't dance :aua

droolymutt · Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Absolutely

Wow.

Some fascinating discussion here. And it all seems to sum up to the fact that looks do matter. A lot. It's not fair, but it's Human Nature. It won't change.

Good thread you started here, Phil.....I agree with Chris - write an article on it......

*pluck*

Phil Frazier · Joined: 04 Aug 2002 Posts: 823

Thanks Drooly. Yes, certain things don't change but other things do quite a bit. My focus is the music business. I will do some research. Many of my articles require me to research the topic. I don't have all or most of the supporting facts of a topic right inside my grey cells of topics I have interest in. In fact my newest artcle has been written by Artists that responded to a question I posed at several BBs. I msut do more of those. It is easier. :laugh

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DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

No plucking here.

Great subject. (Kudos for Deb on refusing to "lay down" on the job.) I have to agree on what some said about personality affecting "looks". In my experience, blond women have a higher ratio than most others when it comes to this. They may look good at a distance, but when you get to know them, they actually begin to look ugly! (Glad there are no blond women in this thread, or I wouldn't be able to say that.) It's not just women though....it's anyone who thinks too highly of themselves....not to be confused with confidence, which is something else entirely.

I have to sort of disagree with the "good looking (cough) women in music", though. If you limit it to pop music, OK. But Aretha Franklin (who CAN sing) and Chaka Khan as many others in the Jazz field are quite hefty. I think it depends on whether or not they are trying to sell music, or an image. Kids (no offense to any listening) don't seem to be able to seperate the two. The phrase "It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings" acknowledges that there have been many heavy, female opera singers. I think if you can sing, you will make it in the business.....if you can't, but look like you can sell the "image", they'll plug the snot out of you for about a year or two. Then you just "disappear" as the fad of your "image" dies.

Note that much of this was not as big an issue prior to MTV (and television in general). Don't get me started on the TV though. I could rant on its "evils" 'til the cows come home and you never have an end to this thread!

bbchris · Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: re

Dreamtone - I like your post. Oh I was blonde once!

droolymutt · Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: re

This is one of the best threads I have ever seen on this board.

Really... - some amazing thoughts being presented.....

I'm gonna go bleach my hair blonde now.

*pluck*

droolymutt · Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: re

lololol....

Just in case that made you wonder......

I'm straight as an arrow..........

Phil Frazier · Joined: 04 Aug 2002 Posts: 823

Chris, you are naturaly blond? That explains a lot. :laugh

what I am getting to is that we as Independents have fallen into the spider web of looks-ism, as well. Remember my suggestion for Chris to go platinum blond? That is about looks. It's about dramatic image. The Pris situation: She most definitely is promoting her looks, no matter how shy she claims that she is. When an Artist posts over 50 photos of themselves on the Net they are promoting their looks.

Whether that is a negative or positive is merely an "opinion". Is there an actual right or wrong regarding this?

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ED1G · PIGGY MOONRUST Joined: 31 Oct 2002 Posts: 2644

Chris you were blonde...... :bigeyes

... Nah I dont believe you :lol

Phil...... I am in the middle of writing a song about what you are saying.... I think you will like it!!

Not about me of course!!... I get sick of going out on the town and getting pestered everywhere I go by lovely ladies........

.... I get sick of it after a while :lol

Paul

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Phil Frazier · Joined: 04 Aug 2002 Posts: 823

Yeah, I know what you mean Paul. Everytime I go out in public I disguise myself so I don't get mobbed. :laugh

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bbchris · Posted: Wed May 21, 2003 3:53 am Post subject: Re: Image

I dyed my hair blonde for a year - it was fun but I prefer my dark locks (ahem with highlights of course!!!) Phil - I've posted a fair few photos of myself too - it really does seem you have some sort of resentment to Priscilla? Is it cause in your heart, you don't think she has any talent? That could be the only reason I can think of that would make you so annoyed!!! Paul! Lets hear your song then!!!