'CIA prisons:' EU warns members

MIKE BURN · Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:37 pm Post subject: 'CIA prisons:' EU warns members

Quote:
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/28/eu.prisons.ap/index.html

'CIA prisons:' EU warns members

Monday, November 28, 2005 Posted: 1351 GMT (2151 HKT)

BERLIN, Germany (AP) -- EU Justice and Home Affairs Commissioner Franco Frattini warned on Monday that any EU nation found to have operated secret CIA prisons could have their EU voting rights suspended.

Frattini's comments came as the Council of Europe -- the continent's main human rights watchdog -- is investigating reports that the CIA set up secret jails in some European nations and transported terror suspects by covert flights. It has urged governments to provide information on the issue.

"I would be obliged to propose to the Council (of EU Ministers) serious consequences, including the suspension of voting rights in the Council, " Frattini said on the margins of a conference of EU defense experts.

Frattini, the EU's top justice official, said the voting rights suspension would be justified under the EU's treaty which stipulates that the bloc is founded on the principles of liberty, democracy, respect for human rights, fundamental freedoms and the rule of law, and that a persistent breach of these principles can be punished.

Clandestine detention centers would violate the European Convention on Human Rights, a human rights treaty legally binding on all European countries.

Jonathan Faul, chief of the EU's justice and home affairs directorate, last week formally raised the issue of alleged CIA secret detention centers with the White House and State Department representatives, who told him Washington needed more time to respond to the media allegations, Frattini said.

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

Frattini has made a big mistake on many different levels.

NRKofOver · Joined: 07 Sep 2002 Posts: 505

DT, how?

The guy is saying that EU nations are bound by the rules of the treaties giving them EU status. That's not a mistake, that's a statement of fact.

My music for the disenchanted masses

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

That's not what I was referring to, NRK. The political fallout of making such a statement will be destabalizing of relations among EU members, and with the US (of course)...with nothing in return to show for it. Foolish. He's looking to score brownie-points at others' expense.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

NRKofOver · Joined: 07 Sep 2002 Posts: 505

I think it's a bit quick to decide such a move would be destabilizing, in fact, the opposite may be true.

The EU was established in part to give European nations more parity with the US, economically and militarily. Seeing the events of the past couple of years unfold in this country, especially with our economic situation becoming more precarious, and our apparent willingness to use military force without provocation, I could see EU nations working harder to solidify their ties to the EU rather than to the US.

My music for the disenchanted masses

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

Time will tell.

Galmin · The King has spoken! Joined: 30 Dec 2001 Posts: 1711

You can have Poland, DT.

Rev9Volts · Joined: 10 Jul 2003 Posts: 1327

just the cute chicks thanks!!! :lana

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

NRK - "...our apparent willingness to use military force without provocation..."

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. My opinion is that we've had provocation enough...starting with 9/11.

NRK - "...I could see EU nations working harder to solidify their ties to the EU rather than to the US."

I don't see it as an "either/or" situation. Whether or not ties are solidified or destabalized does not necessarily have any impact on ties with the US. Some might get worse while others might get better. But within europe it's a polarity thing that the EU doesn't need any more of right now.

MIKE BURN

Let's see......

Quote:

Rice: CIA reports to be clarified

Tuesday, November 29, 2005; Posted: 2:33 p.m. EST (19:33 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice says the U.S. government will clarify reports that the CIA transported terror suspects on covert flights via European airports, the new German foreign minister said after a meeting with her.

"I am happy that we addressed this issue at length. It was right not to avoid this conversation," Steinmeier said. "I am especially delighted that it was understood that there are concerns in the European public but also in the parliaments."

Steinmeier also said that the U.S. government had agreed to meet European concerns and that "they will seek clarification -- this has been assured to us."

The Council of Europe, the continent's main human rights watchdog, is looking into the reports that the CIA set up secret jails in some European nations and transported terror suspects by covert flights to be interrogated and detained there.

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

Notice how the US indirectly snubbed Frattini while speaking to Germany...like I said, not a smooth move by him.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

NRKofOver · Joined: 07 Sep 2002 Posts: 505

Quote:
That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. My opinion is that we've had provocation enough...starting with 9/11.

I agree with your statement when it comes to Afghanistan, but with any other nation, it was unprovoked. If we would've invaded Saudi Arabia, I might be closer to the provocation concept, but Iraq? Please. We should've invaded Mexico and said they were responsible for letting terrorists into the country, it would've made more sense than Iraq, and we'd actually have long-term greater value with a puppet government in Mexico. If Iraq can be justified, Mexico could have easily been justified, they're on the border and they have weapons that can kill Americans, and they don't have procedures in place to insure that terrorists don't come across the border, and blah, blah, blah. If that sounds crazy, just think about the conversation prior to invading Iraq, it sounds just as crazy.

My music for the disenchanted masses

Galmin · The King has spoken! Joined: 30 Dec 2001 Posts: 1711

Quote:
Notice how the US indirectly snubbed Frattini while speaking to Germany...like I said, not a smooth move by him.

I noticed nothing of the sort. Frattini adressed the EU states. Why on earth should the US respond to that?

Steinmeier, however, asked a direct question to the US Secretary of State.

MIKE BURN

Now the U.K. also demand explanations.

Exciting how the U.S. government destroys with all their lies and denials relationships even with the strongest "allies":

Quote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4483640.stm

Wednesday, 30 November 2005, 10:59 GMT

Call for 'torture' flights probe

Police have been asked to probe claims that the CIA has used UK airports to move terrorist suspects to secret jails in other countries to be tortured.

The US has refused to confirm or deny the existence of secret prisons, but said its laws had not been broken.

It is alleged at least 12 airports in England and Scotland have been used, with the busiest being Prestwick in Ayrshire where CIA aircraft landed more than 75 times.

Labour MP Chris Mullin told BBC Two's Newsnight programme : "I am not aware of any evidence that the government in any way is complicit with what's going on."

But he said the UK had shown a "lack of curiosity" about it.

He said: "There's no doubt some sort of secret gulag exists which is controlled by the Americans into which people disappear for months at a time.

"And there's also no doubt that the Americans have for some time been franchising out torture to countries that are rather less scrupulous than ourselves, and indeed the Americans, about the use of torture.

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

LOL! Hearsay! Supposition!

Accepting what Mullin claims to be factual would be the same thing as accepting that there were WMD in Iraq...just because somebody said so. Fancy that.

Either you have rules of evidence that you adhere to yourself, or you don't. It seems that certain members of this board don't practice what they preach. :eyebrow

I don't deny it's all possible...but I also don't think it would be necessary (as Mullin suggests) to have other countries do the "torturing" (I'd still like to see people define that increasingly loose term before using it) if the US was doing it. Mullin doesn't make sense...but then those with hidden agendas rarely do.