Ex-Powell aide: Was U.S. fooled?

[MIKE BURN]

At least there are some people raising eligible questions:

Quote:

---

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/29/us.iraq.ap/index.html



Ex-Powell aide: Was U.S. fooled?



Tuesday, November 29, 2005 Posted: 1514 GMT (2314 HKT)



LONDON, England (AP) -- A former senior U.S. State Department official says he has come to doubt whether President George W. Bush's administration presented an honest intelligence case for the war in Iraq.



"You begin to speculate, you begin to wonder -- Was this intelligence spun? Was it politicized? Was it cherry-picked? Did in fact the American people get fooled? I'm beginning to have my concerns," Lawrence Wilkerson, chief of staff for former Secretary of State Colin Powell, said in an interview broadcast Tuesday.



In the interview with the British Broadcasting Corp., Wilkerson repeated his criticisms of Vice President Dick Cheney, holding him responsible for abuses of prisoners in Afghanistan and Iraq and for shortcomings in post-war planning in Iraq.



Asked whether Cheney was guilty of war crime, Wilkerson said: "Well that's an interesting question. It is certainly a domestic crime to advocate terror, and I would suspect that it is, for whatever it's worth, an international crime as well."

---

[DreamTone7]

Eligible in whose mind, Mike?

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

[NRKofOver]

Geez, as an American I'm glad someone is discussing these things.



Iraq, up to this point, has been disastrous. Sure, progress has been made but we were led to believe this was an easy endeavor, a couple of months and Iraq would be fine. We were led to believe that Iraq was an imminent and immediate threat (by both sides of the aisle) prior to our invasion and that simply wasn't true. We have been told that Iraq will be a model for the Middle East and in light of their democratic elections, that model appears to be fundamentalist Islamic government.



Someone needs to discuss this stuff or maybe not, maybe in America, an illusion of quality is better than reality. Maybe we prefer to be delusional, maybe that keeps us happier.



I'm still hoping for 'success' but this has been a horrible war and someone needs to be held accountable, primarily the morons who got us there in the first place. They took us there through lies, promised us things they can't deliver and now whine if someone questions their actions.



I've said many many times, reassure Americans with real talk, not 'stay the course' political bs, that's just inane. Let us know the plan, how things are really working or not working. Tell us that Iraq can't currently pay for a military, that there is no logistic support, that it will take years more before they're ready to secure their own nation. But don't tell us 'we'll stand down when the Iraqi's step up' without any other information. It's insulting.



For a democracy to succeed information must be free flowing, and the government is obligated to share information with the American people (national security be damned) or they need to be tossed on their arses.



Whether or not I voted for Bush and clan, they represent me and every other American and deflecting questions with misinformation or no information is just wrong.



Answer the critics with solid statements of fact, give their American people something to support, because if this administation doesn't do it soon, the media reports like this will continue to hack away at Bush's approval with Iraq and everything else he does. Give us some reason to believe that our government knows what it's doing and there is hope. Otherwise, give in, give up and move on.

My music for the disenchanted masses

[DreamTone7]

NRK - "...because if this administation doesn't do it soon, the media reports like this will continue to hack away at Bush's approval with Iraq and everything else he does."



They will anyway, no matter what is said or done. It's part of their agenda.





Personally, I wish some europeans would start discussing terrorist issues in a serious, productive and pro-active manner. Their reactionary posture (wait until a crisis happens, when it's too late) is what's going to get them into trouble...then we'll have to come bail them out again. I hope we charge them double this time...their refusal to learn from their own mistakes of the past is frustrating. It's no wonder they've "lost the bubble".

[NRKofOver]

DT, in the past 50 years when did the US bail Europe out of terrorist problems?



Europeans have been dealing with terrorism pro-actively for a whole hell of a lot longer than the US.



That's why terrorists were able to blow up the OK city building and the WTC buildings, because we weren't at all diligent in our anti-terrorist actions.

My music for the disenchanted masses

[Galmin]

Colonel Larry Wilkerson, eh? Cue the swiftboaters.

[DreamTone7]

NRK - "DT, in the past 50 years when did the US bail Europe out of terrorist problems?



Europeans have been dealing with terrorism pro-actively for a whole hell of a lot longer than the US.



That's why terrorists were able to blow up the OK city building and the WTC buildings, because we weren't at all diligent in our anti-terrorist actions."





Where have you been the past 50 years?



The US had to bail europe out of its complacent attitude towards aggression aimed at them...WWI and WWII ring a bell? Now it seems most likely that the US will have to deal with terrorists solo. If the europeans were truly concerned about terrorism, they'd drop their silly "anti-US" agenda and begin helping us out to round up these clowns...but they won't. Hence, we're going to have to do it ourselves.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

[NRKofOver]

I was never real good at math, but WWI was way over 500 years ago and WWII ended in 1945, by my calculations, that's 60 years ago, and those conflicts had nothing to do with 'terrorism'.



Now, back to the topic, the last 50 years and terrorism in Europe. Do you have any idea how many terrorists have been rounded up, tried and convicted in Europe in the past 50 years? Are you even vaguely aware of the terrorist problems that have plagued Europe for decades? Where was America's concern about terrorism in the 70's and 80's when European cafe's and discos were routinely bombed?



It seems to me you've taken an 'anti-European' approach simply because some Europeans are taking an anti-American approach. I submit to you that you have massive ignorance (just like me) when it comes to Europe and terrorism. I have mere historical glimpses in my brain of lots of terrorism in Europe. I don't know why, or by whom, or what was ever done about it, but I don't begin to think for a second that Europeans are pro-terrorist or even passive or soft about terrorism.



We've had one impressive attack and a few minor ones by foreign terrorists, and we've had a couple of domestic terrorists do some destructive things, but Americans can't get close to comprehending terrorism in comparison to most of the rest of the world. I think we should actually ask other nations for their input on how to deal with terrorism (other than invading soveriegn non-terrorist nations) since they've had tons more experience.

My music for the disenchanted masses

[DreamTone7]

European terrorism has historically been, for the most part, surrounding internal issues. Just like the OK bombing here in the US. The Islamic extremists are operating on a global level...it's a whole 'nuther ball-game.



Now that the door is open in europe for terrorists that operate on a global level, they need to get serious. I've still yet to find out if a single person found guilty concerning the recent riots in France (or other countries for that matter) has been expelled from the country. Interesting to me is how the whole matter fell off the face of the media map...just when the real important issues were to be uncovered. Instead, the media resumes its "smokescreen" of anti-US bickering. SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for today's mass-media.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

[Galmin]

Quote:

---

European terrorism has historically been, for the most part, surrounding internal issues. Just like the OK bombing here in the US.

---

"Surrounding internal issues"? Pah. One could claim that Al Qaida is about the foreign policy of the US to plaster it in the same corner. Neither is correct.

Quote:

---

The Islamic extremists are operating on a global level...it's a whole 'nuther ball-game.

---

Just like Christian Extremists. If you want to use a denomination, use "Islamistic Terrorists". We are still talking about terrorism, right?

Quote:

---

I've still yet to find out if a single person found guilty concerning the recent riots in France (or other countries for that matter) has been expelled from the country.

---

Shut off Faux News once in a while and read a french newspaper. They're allover the net. A whole bunch of rioters has been apprehended while in the act of rioting-by-burning-renaults and expelled.

Quote:

---

Interesting to me is how the whole matter fell off the face of the media map...just when the real important issues were to be uncovered.

---

Compared to the Rodney King Riots, the deathtoll of the French Riots were microscopic. Every day in Iraq more people die than during the entire period of rioting in France. That's why you don't hear much about this on your local newsoutlet anymore. That and the possibility that the talking points "the riots happened because of some evil Jihadist mastermind started them" are wrong and as stale as usual.

[DreamTone7]

Galmin - "Every day in Iraq more people die than during the entire period of rioting in France. That's why you don't hear much about this on your local newsoutlet anymore."



If you actually believe this to be the true reason then you understand nothing about the mass-media.

[Galmin]

So what was on the news today at your end?



Ummm, Iraq?