how politics exploits religious fools

The Master68 · Joined: 04 Nov 2004 Posts: 442

If religion were abolished, there would be more peace.

But I'm sure people would find something to hate...

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When you argue with a fool, be sure he isn't similarly occupied...

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Music - Organismo Cibernetico (Cybernetic Organism)

antman37 · Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Posts: 86

It is often suggested that there has been a sharp rise in religiously motivated conflict.

But the authors of the War Audit say there have been very few genuinely religious wars in the past century.

The Israel-Arab wars from 1948 to the present day are often seen as wars over religion.

In fact they have been about nationalism, self-defence, the securing of resources or the expropriation of land.

So why is religion a factor in war at all when all the main faiths allegedly have little time for violence and advocate peace?

Because, it is suggested, leaders use differences over faith amongst poorly educated religious 'flocks' as a way of sowing hatred and mobilising support for political wars.

As the American civil war leader Abraham Lincoln put it almost 150 years ago: "The will of God prevails.

"In great contests, each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, but one must be wrong.

"God cannot be for and against the same thing at the same time."

Ancient kings and emperors used the same technique of mobilising support for war, feeding into the insecurity that they themselves had cultivated amongst their ignorant and superstitious populations.

- BBC discussion pack

antman37 · Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Posts: 86

yes mr master68 but don't you agree that more peace would at least be a step forward?

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

I disagree, Master68. Hate is not born of religion...but religion is quite often used as an excuse for doing many hateful things. Abolishing religion would not abolish the hate...just one of the excuses that hateful people use.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

antman37 · Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Posts: 86

no you are completely wrong mr dreamtone7

hate is just a feeling and is not in itself harmful it has to be mobilised into violence

religion helps to moblise thousands to do the violence that the haters wish on those they hate so religion is the harmful thing not hate

nationalism is also harmful but that is just another form of religion

you are confusing the emotional with the real

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

I disagree with you too, then, antman.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

antman37 · Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Posts: 86

yes i know you are disagreeing with me but the problem is that you do not have a rational argument to back up your opinion

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

As I stated before (in another thread), rationality is relative among men...so unless you think yourself more than a man, your rationality is also relative to your own point of view...and no better than anybody elses. Are you sure you're not "questionnaire"? You certainly have his arrogance.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

antman37 · Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Posts: 86

oh no mr dreamtone7 im not mr questionnaire and i think it is unfair to call me arrogant like him

it seems that you religious people call anyone who can beat you in argument arrogant

thats because you think that your gods knowledge is perfect and you have learnt your gods knowledge from your bible and therefore anyone who argues with you is arrogant and wrong because they are disputing your gods knowledge not yours

do you believe that men's rationality is relative because we are imperfect and only your god is perfect?

Edited by: antman37 at: 11/14/04 21:30

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

antman - "oh no mr dreamtone7 im not mr questionnaire and i think it is unfair to call me arrogant like him"

We have a saying here in the US..."If the shoe fits, wear it."

...but I'll give you the benifit of the doubt and take your word for it that you are not quextionnaire.

antman - "it seems that you religious people call anyone who can beat you in argument arrogant"

No..."arrogance" is a term I reserve for those who publically assume that they are more intelligent, yet have given no evidence to others in support of that fact. And I don't see where you have "beat" anybody in anything...though I am equally sure that you are hoping others believe so, simply because you say so...another sign of arrogance.

antman - "do you believe that men's rationality is relative because we are imperfect and only your god is perfect?"

Not exactly. I believe it is relative because without a common point of reference that can be agreed upon by all as being superior, it will ALWAYS be relative. People, like you, will always be able to rationalize an action, a belief, a motive, a cause, or whatever you will without that common point. To believe that we humans are capable of understanding all there is to know, and that there is not some other being in this huge universe we live in that is more knowledgable than us takes an extreme arrogance. If you read the Bible with an open (as in non-arrogant) mind, you will discover that such a book could not have been written by men only. If not, then who?

antman37 · Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Posts: 86

"Not exactly. I believe it is relative because without a common point of reference that can be agreed upon by all as being superior, it will ALWAYS be relative. People, like you, will always be able to rationalize an action, a belief, a motive, a cause, or whatever you will without that common point. To believe that we humans are capable of understanding all there is to know, and that there is not some other being in this huge universe we live in that is more knowledgable than us takes an extreme arrogance."

oh but please excuse me mr dreamtone7 it seems that everything you say is to try to prove the superiority of your god and say that men are inferior which means that theres no point in other humans discussing anything with you because you will always refer to your religious text for your guidance therefore you might as well just go and live in a cave with your bible like the hermits used to do

"If you read the Bible with an open (as in non-arrogant) mind, you will discover that such a book could not have been written by men only. If not, then who?"

ants?

Seismic Anamoly · Joined: 22 Aug 2002 Posts: 3039

See you soon.

antman37 · Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Posts: 86

dear mr anamoly thank you so much for not being abusive and threatening to mr questionnaire

i know you don't like his politics but you must admit that his spelling and his knowledge is very good compared to you and your friends

im nigerian and im studying english in london england and there are many other academics in england who are very clever like mr questionnaire some even more so

studying with these people is making my spelling very good i won a competition here for foreign students

my vocabulary is getting better too although i have trouble with my punctuation which is why i leave it out when i make messages in case i am embarrassed

you should leave your small towns in the south where the peoples necks are red and come and join me here where you will all become more intelligent like i am becoming

antman37 · Joined: 12 Nov 2004 Posts: 86

ps please tell me why they say that the peoples 'necks are red' ie that they are rednecks where you live because i do not understand this

is it true that they have on average lower iqs and play finger picking and vote for mr bush because he has used their religious nature to scare them about other people?

i am also gay and they also do not seem to tolerate us homosexuals just like some of the ignorant tribespeople back home in nigeria who make our lives very miserable they beat us and call us nasty names and some of us have been murdered

i do not blame the christians with the red necks for this because the extreme muslims are just as bad and they are both as ignorant as the tribespeople in nigeria who can neither read nor write only shoot guns and support warlords like mr charles taylor who was a thoroughly nasty fellow

Rev9Volts · Joined: 10 Jul 2003 Posts: 1327

i think you are a fake and a troll...