Why some Christian fundamentalists support Israel.

[questionnaire]

This is what some Christian fundamentalists and biblical literalists believe is the real purpose of supporting Israel, and it has nothing to do with caring about the fate of Jews. They believe it is necessary to establish Israel and beat down the Arabs because the biblical prophecy says that Armageddon, the End of Days and the Second Coming will happen in Israel. Does anyone here believe this stuff?



In modern days, God is still using Zionism to fulfill His word. If God used men of flesh and blood like Samson and Gideon, why should we think it strange to use men like Herzel, Weizmann, Ben- Gurion, Begin, and Dayan to demonstrate His eternal faithfulness and to fulfill His promises to the patriarchs and to the prophets?

This final restoration is to accomplish two things:

First: To prepare the stage for the battle of Armageddon.

In the book of Revelation we read:



And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates, and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon (Revelation 16:12-16).

Armageddon is in the land of Israel. Second: So that the Lord Jesus Christ, the Messiah, might come to end that terrible battle, and his feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem.

A day of the Lord is coming when your plunder will be divided among you. I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem. . . (Zechariah 14:1-3 NIV).

We have to keep in mind that the second coming of Jesus, the Messiah, will not take place in London, or Athens, or Paris, or Washington, DC. But His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem, Israel.

Some years ago I was coming from London, England, to Washington, DC. On the plane a man was sitting on the seat next to me. I introduced myself to him as a Baptist preacher. In the course of the conversation, he told me that he was a Cambridge graduate. He also said in a challenging voice, "I am an atheist."



"Atheist?" I exclaimed.



"Yes" He answered. "Prove to me that there is a God," he demanded.



"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands," I said. "Besides who gave us a conscience? Why do we feel guilty when we do wrong? Look at your eye, the iris, cornea, conjunctiva, sclera, pupil, optic nerve, retina, lens; are all these the creation of chance?"



"It could be," he answered quietly.



"Chance is nothing sir, and nothing can only create nothing," I said. Then I prayed in my heart for a proof that he could not refute. The Lord gave it to me. "Sir," I said ... "I am Egyptian. I immigrated to the United States with all my family ... I have grandchildren who were born in America. Do you think that those grandchildren will form a nation and go back to Egypt after two hundred years?"



"I doubt very much that they will do that," he answered.



"Now, what do you think about the Jews, who were dispersed to the four corners of the earth for almost 2500 years and who are now in the land of Israel? And what do you think about an old book which predicted their return to their land thousands of years before their restoration? Who wrote that book? Who inspired it? How can you explain the fulfilment of the prophecies concerning their return written in that book?"



"Well, I have no explanation," he said.



"The only logical explanation is that there is a God who knows the end from the beginning, who inspired His prophets to write those prophecies, who is sovereign over history," I said.



The man grew silent. The survival of the Jews, and their restoration to their land is a vivid demonstration of the faithfulness of God, and the truthfulness of the Bible.



Nutcases?



Probably.

[DreamTone7]

Ah...I see you don't know the Bible at all. Did you know that Jesus was a Jew? The Jews are Gods chosen people according to the Bible, and according to how they will be treated by God as found in the Bible. Did you know that the Christian God and the Jewish God are one and the same? Christians know that God works through people, but that God does not require people to do what he means to. People can no more make the "end times" come than they can prevent it from coming.

[HKRockChick]

the bible the bible the bible. who cares?



jews are gods chosen people? I guess that must make the rest of us chopped liver, including you. ahahahahaha



hogwash and getting really TIRED DT. Give it up, the world does not run on maniacal interpretations of one religions holy book. We'd all be in thick s h i t if it did.



B O R I N N N N N N N N G G G G G G G

[questionnaire]

Well, this exposes DT, doesn't it?



A fundamentalist Christian and a biblical literalist.

[DreamTone7]

[RonOnGuitar]

Quote:

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Well, this exposes DT, doesn't it?

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Yes, indeed it does. It exposes DT as having been brought up learning manners, thoughtful reasoning and good grace.



Conversely, it also exposes that others were raised in situations not as well-suited to learning such qualities (e.g. respect for individuals and a diversity of beliefs).



It exposes the sheer irrational hatred of anti-religious bigotry, which already had come to light recently in the incarnation of anti-Semitism (more on that elsewhere, later).



It exposes the intellectual dishonesty inherent in attacking the person and exposes a complete inability to address any given topic in a calm, sane manner.



It exposes there are those who are not very comfortable with discussion; the forte of such persons is solely in leveling personal attacks. This likely exposes a bit more than the attacker might intend; those who live with an extremely low sense of self-worth usually find it much easier trying to drag down others as opposed to the effort involved in lifting themselves up mentally, emotionally and maturely.



Quite an expose, to be sure.

[LarreeMP3]

Quote:

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jews are gods chosen people? I guess that must make the rest of us chopped liver, including you. ahahahahaha

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Typical racist anti-semitic misinterpretation of scripture. All it means is that we were the first people chosen by G-d to receive the word of the one true G-d. Being "chosen" has never given me any feeling of "superiority" over my fellow man.

Click here to listen to three decades of original Larree music!

[RonOnGuitar]

Correct, Larree. And, of course, DT was just respectfully informing others on a corresponding Christian belief, the orthodox view held by Catholics and Protestants alike. That is, Christians teach it was through the Jewish ("chosen") people/faith that the world's saviour came.



Judaism doesn't agree with Jesus being the Messiah, of course - otherwise they'd be Christians, LOL. But anyone with even a basic knowledge of Comparative Religion 101 is aware of the fact that Jesus was Jewish (probably still is, I'd reckon, ha!), he didn't pop out of some New-age or Heaven's Gate UFO cult.

[questionnaire]

Right.



So, are also a Christian fundamentalist, Ron?



Larree, all religions have a hefty dose of supremacism at their core.



It is not anti-semitic to suggest this.

[questionnaire]

"It exposes the intellectual dishonesty inherent in attacking the person and exposes a complete inability to address any given topic in a calm, sane manner."



I agree. I'm just turning your technique of personal pathologisation against you and DT, Ron. You don't like it, do you?



Religion, eh? You're not here to discuss 'politics' at all, really, are you?



Oh, and I feel fine about myself, Ron, I have plenty of self-worth. I don't support a political regime that is the cause of murder and exploitation.

[RonOnGuitar]

Quote:

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I feel fine about myself

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I'm sure you do, really-really-really you do, honestly and truly you do, Steve. Now, with that settled, the only question then is what you're responding to with that quote and why you immediately identified yourelf and whatever your issues may be with it.

[questionnaire]

"I'm sure you do."



You're right, for once.



I was responding to your stupid, tedious comment about my 'lack of self-worth.'



Stop suggesting that there's something wrong with people who disagreee with your world-view, Ron. The Stalinists used to do that with dissenters.



That's settled. Answer the question.



Do you believe in the biblical 'End of Days' prophecy?

[RonOnGuitar]

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I was responding to your stupid, tedious comment about my 'lack of self-worth.'

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I went over this thread several times, Steve, especially my postings. I fail to see where I even mentioned you. So setting that aside, the interesting question is: with which notion(s) of inferiority did you or do you usually self-identify, Steve?

[questionnaire]

"It exposes there are those who are not very comfortable with discussion; the forte of such persons is solely in leveling personal attacks. This likely exposes a bit more than the attacker might intend; those who live with an extremely low sense of self-worth usually find it much easier trying to drag down others as opposed to the effort involved in lifting themselves up mentally, emotionally and maturely. Quite an expose, to be sure." - RonOnGuitar



Crikey, Ron, you're transparent. I had just mentioned exposing DT's fundamentalist Christianity, and you're claiming that your amateur psychological analysis was not about me? Hopeless, Ron.







Give it up, Ron. People reading this board will be rolling around laughing. I don't like you, but only because you're trapped in a political ideology that causes death and prevents your intellect from improving and you use dirty tactics to put down your opponents, not because of any 'personal pathology' that I have just invented specifically to discredit you. In fact most perceptive people reading this board will by now suspect that underneath your contrived politeness and constant harping on about 'facts' you harbour some fairly extreme right-wing religious views from which you might never escape - but I don't want to see someone suffer constant humiliation.



As for my 'inferiority', well to be quite honest, Ron, old fruit, this past few days talking to you is the first time in my life that I've experienced a superiority complex, but I guess that happens to most people who have the misfortune to talk to you at length.

[RonOnGuitar]

Steve, if you check back you'll see that you were/are upset over some mention of "inferiority" or the like. So I'm wondering still: with which notion(s) of inferiority did you (or do you) self-identify, Steve? A person wouldn't be outraged, much less respond, if they made no such self-application(s), correct?