The evil history of American Christianity

[antman37]

The Evangelical faith that persuaded so many Americans to vote against their own best interests has been used to bolster privilege for almost two hundred years. The story begins with the establishment of the large Southern plantations, unmechanised agricultural factories that depended on slave labour. At first the three churches that would become dominant there, the Baptists, Methodists and Presbyterians, were so bold as to maintain that slavery was wrong. They did this on secular grounds, appealing to the Declaration of Independence. Soon, however, they found it expedient to reverse this unpopular stance. In the early nineteenth century they withdrew from the contentious social arena by concentrating on personal salvation, and eventually they discovered that human bondage could be justified on biblical grounds. Since the Bible was a higher authority than the Declaration of Independence, the Southerners considered themselves more god-fearing than the Northerners and therefore morally superior.



However, the Southerners’ justification of slavery led them into conflict with their co-religionists in the North, where slavery was of little economic importance. In 1845, when the Baptists in the northern states refused to permit their missionaries to own slaves, a schism resulted and the Southerners left the fold. This is the origin of the largest Protestant denomination in the United States today. The Southern Baptist Convention, with more than sixteen million members, was founded with the sole purpose of defending the institution of slavery.



It was the slave revolts of the 1820’s and 30’s that served to convince the Southern planters of the utility of religion. In the wake of these, the South first began to display its characteristic preoccupation with personal sin and cosmic evil. The slave-owners realised that their chattels were in dire need of religious admonitions to obedience. But it had to be an apolitical, inward-looking piety. If the slaves were preoccupied with revival meetings and pinned their hopes on being raptured out of their misery, they’d be far more willing to tolerate their lot.



The early Evangelicals argued further that it was not enough for the slave-owners to merely send someone to convert their slaves, if the masters held aloof. In that event, the slaves were sure to spot the hypocrisy. No, if the planters wanted the biblical lessons on obedience to stick properly, they’d better set a good example. And so the worldly slave owners began to turn to Christ, as well. Soon most of the American South had "gotten religion" - but the cruelty continued unabated.



As this week’s election demonstrates, religion has lost none of its power to distract people from issues of social justice. The voters paid scant heed to the fact that 43 percent of the Bush tax breaks go to the wealthiest one percent - or that over forty million Americans cannot afford health care - or that the $500 billion deficit can only be reduced by slashing social services. Instead of concerning themselves with secular goals like jobs, health care and education, the voters’ attention was firmly riveted on personal sin and the battle against evil.



In the nineteenth century a minister once calculated that conversion would increase the value of a slave to the planters by more than 10 percent. Today, however, being born again increases the value of a voter to the Neo-Cons by double that amount - by a whopping 20 percent.

[DreamTone7]

Why not talk about the evil PRESENT of Islamic extremists? I do sense an alterior motive here...what, pray tell, could it be???

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

[antman37]

no i agree that islamic extremism is 'evil' also but i was being ironic about the word 'evil' anyway



you believe in evil not me



the islamic extremists are midled by their religion just as you are misled by yours which is how christians and muslims are being mobilised into violence that they would not bother with if they were rational and secular in their outlook

[DreamTone7]

Hate, when it exists, will always find an outlet...regardless of the reason/excuse used. It is man-made organizations, not a religion itself, that are currently being used as an outlet for hate by some Muslims. This is what happens when people chose to follow a man instead of a peaceful diety. Remove the diety, and the hate, along with the men who lead in its name, will still exist...they will simply find another "excuse".



Rationality of men is relative...and is exactly what allows hate to propagate. It is a very common mistake not to separate a belief system from the men who lead in its name. Any altruistic motive can be turned to evil with the wrong man in the lead.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

[antman37]

i have already refuted this argument on another thread and please if you don't mind i will not repeat myself here

[DreamTone7]

antman - "i have already refuted this argument on another thread..."



Unsuccessfully so...

[antman37]

oh no mr dreamtone7 my refutation was successful



as i said hatred is a human emotion but it takes religion or nationalism or preferrably both to give it the moral justification and organization it needs to turn it into war



this is why the law in the west says that disputes must be confined to individuals so that hatred can not be stirred amongst whole groups of people and turned on other groups of people



you have not answered this with a counter-argument

[DreamTone7]

No need to counter an invalid arguement. You apparently know very little about human nature.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

[antman37]

no no no mr dreamtone7 you do not get the idea



you cannot refute an argument just by saying it is invalid and the other person is ignorant of the thing the argument is about



you must put up an argument that is more convincing than the other persons



from what ive seen here you are not too good at doing this but if you practice you will become better

[DreamTone7]

antman - "you cannot refute an argument just by saying it is invalid and the other person is ignorant of the thing the argument is about"



Wrong, antman. I can, and I did.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

[antman37]

please excuse mr dreamtone7 i did not mean that it is impossible or prohibited to do that what I meant is that you cannot do that if you want to put up an argument that is convincing to other people

[DreamTone7]

The people who can see what is true and what is false will see it...those who cannot, won't. No words of mine will change that. If I can see that you have little idea as to human nature, then I am positive others can see it too. I might as well try to prove that water is wet.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

[antman37]

oh no mr dreamtone7 this means that you are privileging the christians minds and saying they can see truth and everyone else cannot



the tribespeople in my country nigeria who still speak yoruba and igbo and refuse to be eucated and learn lingua franca english talk like that and they have very closed minds saying that their 'creation myths' are all true but they all have different creation myths so they can't all be true can they so who is speaking the truth?



if i may be so bold sir your bible is just one creation myth and book of parables and commandments amongst many and why do tribespeople in nigeria such as yoruba igbo hausa etc say theirs is truth when they are all so obviously not true they are just made up by ignorant tribespeople such as those who made up the jewish christian and islamic myths many years ago



to say that that your religion has truths like water is wet is to say that your religion is like science and to confuse the two like the tribespeople which is less than i have come to expect when i speak to western people who i was told are sophisticated and seek hypothesis and evidence etc



and sir why do you insult me and contradict yourself when you say i know nothing of human nature when before you said that all mens knowledge is relative anyway only your bible is true this makes no sense?



your religion seems to have confused you sir and if i may be so bold i suggest that you work hard and pay your fees and come to university where you will have all this nonsense cleared out of your mind and escape your tribe of rednecks who seem to me to be ignorant of science literature and philosophy just like the yoruba and hausa etc who were easy prey for people like the evil mr charles taylor etc who reminds me of your mr bush

[DreamTone7]

antman - "oh no mr dreamtone7 this means that you are privileging the christians minds and saying they can see truth and everyone else cannot"



Not what I said...in fact, your post contains other things that I have also not said that you have attributed to me. It is quite clear that you read into what others say whatever it is that you want to...most likely to further your own personal agenda, while attempting to maintain a "banner of truth" over your rhetoric. I would draw attention to others of this fact, as can clearly be seen by first reading what I have written, and then reading what you say I have written.



In view of this, it is no wonder your view of human nature is so far off center (as compared to that of most others)...you apparently (unless you're attempting merely to stir up angst) have difficulty with taking an impartial view of events and occurances...not unlike Mr. Bin Laden and other extremists who deign to distort reality in the eyes of others to further an agenda in the name of something else (in that case, religion). Now, what agenda could yours be? Perhaps an attempt to turn the eyes of people away from the Bible because of how it labels your lifestyle (homosexuality)? Methinks so.



It's really too bad that one has to identify ones self by what should, in my opinion, go on behind closed doors and remain there.

[antman37]

"Not what I said...in fact, your post contains other things that I have also not said that you have attributed to me. It is quite clear that you read into what others say whatever it is that you want to...most likely to further your own personal agenda, while attempting to maintain a "banner of truth" over your rhetoric. I would draw attention to others of this fact ..."



but mr dreamtone7 sir forgive my bluntness but by expressing your wrong opinion as fact you are again doing exactly what i said and you say exactly this 'personal agenda' thing about everyone like mr burn and mr questionnaire who have much more education than you sir and who get the upper arm in an argument with you whilst falsely proposing that what you think yourself or what you read in your religious book is fact sir.



sir the real fact is that you have weak arguments and you say very many silly things unworthy of educated western people and more like i hear from yoruba igbo etc tribespeople in my country and then when others point out these contradictions absurdities and non sequiturs sir you deny you have said them



then sir you affront me by saying i am an extremist like mr bin laden and then connect that to yet another alleged personal agenda of deterring other fellows from christianity when i make it plain that i find all religion throughly antique and unscientific and only for ignorant tribespeople



sir i assure you that i practice my sexual relations behind closed doors to do so in public in nigeria would risk my life and limb from murdering tribespeople sir who think people like me are an abomination sir rather than human beings a view sir which you seem to subscribe to if so making you no more kind gentle and advanced than them



do you practice your heterosexual relations in public sir as your countrymen and women do in your pornographic movies? if so i suggest you desist from this sir because it is most ungracious behaviour not fit for advanced people even our tribespeople do this in private sir. i hear that the mormons take many wives like our richer tribespeople i was born with my sexual feelings but these christians like other men were not born with feelings for many wives so i suggest they desist sir because that is also ungracious behaviour if i may be so bold as to say so