Arab bomb victim backs West Bank barrier

RonOnGuitar · Joined: 08 Jan 2003 Posts: 1916

Interesting thoughts from an Arab who lives in the only democracy in the Middle East, one where Arabs can vote and hold office.

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Sunday, July 11, 2004 · Last updated 9:35 a.m. PT

Arab bomb victim backs West Bank barrier

By GAVIN RABINOWITZ

ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

TEL AVIV, Israel -- The images from the explosion kept running through Sammi Masrawa's mind as he lay in his hospital bed - a young female soldier with the back of her head missing, a heavily pregnant woman lying on the sidewalk, legs mangled legs, screaming "my baby, my baby.'

Sunday's blast at a Tel Aviv bus stop had changed his world view.

The 29-year-old Arab Israeli from Tel Aviv was the head of a local committee calling for coexistence between Israelis and the Palestinians.

Now he wants them kept apart.

"A month ago I went to protest the fence," he said, referring to the barrier Israel is building in the West Bank. "Now I believe it can only strengthen us."

The bombing came just two days after the world court ruled that the barrier is illegal. Israel says the structure keeps bombers out, while Palestinians says it encroaches on their land and disrupts the lives of thousands of people.

Nearly 1,000 Israelis have been killed, many of them in bombings, since fighting broke out four years ago. Just over 3,000 Palestinians were killed in the same period, most by Israeli army fire.

Masrawa thinks there is no choice but to build the barrier.

"These terrorists don't differentiate between Jews and Arabs, they just want to kill," he said, glass shards embedded in his leg, as his wife shook her head in disbelief at his political transformation.

Masrawa had just descended from a bus on his way to work as a chef in nearby restaurant when a bomb hidden in the shrubs behind the bus stop went off.

Bus driver Eyal Gazit said he initially thought the bomb was on his bus.

"Suddenly a large boom, a cloud of black and all the bus was covered ... the windows blew out," he told Israel's Army Radio. "There were screams...the passengers were jumping over each other trying to escape from the bus."

At the bus stop, cigarette butts floated in a pool of blood next to a black, high-heel shoe. A rescue worker carried off a bloodstained bag as others methodically searched the road for body parts.

Masrawa has not given up entirely on Arab Israeli coexistence.

"I want to say that I am an Israeli Arab and I'm proud to be an Arab who tried to save a soldier," he said.

questionnaire · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 640

More f*cking propaganda from a one-dimensional, ill-read propagandist with too much time on his hands.

The mainstream Western media tends to make the plight of the Palestinians invisible, condemning them simply as 'terrorists', killers with no reason and no cause, rathjer than a people having their land stolen and their houses bulldozed by illegal settlers and their lightly-armed population fired upon by tanks and helicopter gunships. Ron simply mirrors this process on the net.

Try to understand this, Ron. Terrorism is brutal and wrong. Imperialism is brutal and wrong. Terrorism is the only way to fight a powerful military force bearing down on you with violent intent to impose its will on you. To reduce terrorism in the future the Americans must change their government and their foreign policies and the Israelis must stop the illegal setlements and the bulldozing.

To counter Ron's tedious propaganda yet again, true democracy is not possible in a world dominated by corporate capitalism. Remember - in this form of democracy, we have free speech and can say what we like, but the corporate elite don't care what we say because they can do what they like.

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

Q - "The mainstream Western media tends to make the plight of the Palestinians invisible, condemning them simply as 'terrorists', killers with no reason and no cause, rathjer than a people having their land stolen..."

Land that is not theirs to begin with is not land that can be stolen. They should either accept Israeli rule and Israeli law, like anyone else living in Israel...or move.

RonOnGuitar · Joined: 08 Jan 2003 Posts: 1916

Quote:
Western media tends to make the plight of the Palestinians invisible, condemning them simply as 'terrorists', killers with no reason and no cause

Steve, I believe I had explained the meaning and origin of the phrase "shooting the messenger", correct?

Quote:
Masrawa thinks there is no choice but to build the barrier. "These terrorists don't differentiate between Jews and Arabs, they just want to kill," he said

Hmmm....today it's an Arab bomb victim who controls the media. Certainly makes for a unique "world-wide conspiracy theory du jour".

But I wouldn't recommend shooting this messenger, Steve, he's already been severely wounded.

Conversely, I applaud this brave Arab man for taking an unequivocal personal stand against the terrorists, especially since he wasn't in an Ivory Tower; he's an average guy who was just riding a bus.

However, you are more than welcome to disagree with Mr. Masrawa, Steve.

questionnaire · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 640

"Steve, I believe I had explained the meaning and origin of the phrase "shooting the messenger", correct?"

Ron, I seem to remember explaining quite clearly on another thread that your use of the metaphor 'shooting the messenger' was inappropriate in the context that you used it at the time. What you need to do is read more, think more and expand your repository of ideas and expressions so that you can explain yourself in a more sophisticated manner. When you've done that, and only when you've done that, you can start 'explaining' things in a pompous, patronizing manner to other board members whose education is far superior to yours.

"Hmmm....today it's an Arab bomb victim who controls the media. Certainly makes for a unique "world-wide conspiracy theory du jour"..... But I wouldn't recommend shooting this messenger, Steve, he's already been severely wounded......Conversely, I applaud this brave Arab man for taking an unequivocal personal stand against the terrorists, especially since he wasn't in an Ivory Tower; he's an average guy who was just riding a bus......However, you are more than welcome to disagree with Mr. Masrawa, Steve."

I have a few points to make about this issue.

1. DT - please stop misinforming the board members. The land does not 'belong' to the Israelis. The ownership of the land is in dispute, and the historical record tends to be in favour of the Palestinians. Please learn the difference between fact and opinion before you present your opinion as fact, and please do not quote the bible to us on this matter because it is not a legally or scientifically admissable document when it comes to land ownership.

2. Ron, please stop distorting what other board members say. There are some well-eduated people on this board and you look very foolish when you do this. Do you honestly believe that I, or anyone else here, is stupid enough to suggest that the western media is controlled by Mr. Masrawa? Ron, this thought does not even approach undergraduate level. In fact, I would expect better from soemone in the early years of High School.

3. I can't be bothered to give you an introductory Media Studies lesson. Please consult Fiske's 'Introduction to Communication Studies' 2nd edition, where you will find out how journalists are controlled by editors with various political positions, and how those political positions help to attract readers with those politics, and the advertizers buy space to target those specific audiences, and how journalists invent quotes or take them out of context, and how they use the thoughts of individuals to inappropriately represent wider views, and how they pick on people in distressed conditions (as with Mr. Masrawa) to glean emotive quotes from which to construct sensationalized articles etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

4. When you have done this, you will realize how stupid your accusation that I am picking on Mr. Masrawa as the bearer of bad news actually is.

5. Mr Masrawa has been badly hurt and he is in a shocked and emotional state. Of course he hates the terrorists. It is a natural human reaction to do this, and the journalists know it. Whether that represents an 'unequivocal personal stand' against the terrorists, or how long that stand will last, remains to be seen.

6. Assessments of the Israeli/Palestinian dispute are best made by taking a broader look - such as the fact that Palestinian deaths outweigh Israeli deaths considerably, or that the Israeli state is funded by the USA and armed to the teeth with sophisticated weaponry that the Palestinians cannot match (hence the resort to terrorism), that it was the Israeli land -grabbing from 1967 that escalated the conflict, etc etc.

Ron, I'm not objecting to your spamming because it's right-wing, but because its content is so f*cking crude and low-grade. It's simply cut and pasted from popular news agencies that anyone can read if they want to - you don't even offer a sophisticated commentary when you post these articles, so a discussion can develop. This board is supposed to be about political discussion. You have a very thin grasp of politics, and nobody here has anything to learn from you.

btw, please stop using French and Latin phrases in the middle of your text. You don't do it properly, and it's embarrassing.

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

Q - "The ownership of the land is in dispute, and the historical record tends to be in favour of the Palestinians. Please learn the difference between fact and opinion before you present your opinion as fact, and please do not quote the bible to us on this matter..."

The Bible goes back a lot further than any "historical records" you care to quote...and I will continue to quote it because I believe it is relevant. I don't care what a group of scientists with agendas that would be derailed by their admission that the Bible (where literal) denotes historical fact. Every time they unearth a piece of evidence it shows the Bible to be historically correct, and they have no proof otherwise. It would just be INCONVENIENT for certain people to admit that the Bible is correct...so they refuse to do it. Sorry boys...you don't get to make that choice for me (or others). So, I will continue to quote the Bible, where relevant.

As far as Palestine goes, if you are not a nation you have no legal claim on the land...so how could it be in dispute? I don't see Saudi Arabia in a border dispute with Israel. Why not, if the land is not Israels? How would you like it if I camped out on your front lawn while you were gone, and when you came home I said, "Sorry, this land is mine now." It doesn't work that way. There is no legitimate dispute. It is simply a way for those who are anti-Israeli (and most likely anti-semetic) to attempt to discredit their government and their actions to protect their people. I have yet (and I have been waiting patiently) to see any evidence indicating that Palestine is a nation. Well? Where is it? If you're right, you should be able to produce such evidence, correct? Or have you bought into other peoples lies and are now holding them up as truth and/or fact...while calling other peoples facts not the truth? Bottom line: Since Palestine is not a nation, they have no claim to control over the land in question. I think if they want to live there, that's fine...as long as they obey Israeli law and expect no preferential treatment (which is really what this is all about) as citizens of Israel. This is really about racial bigotry on the part of the Palestinians, and nothing else. And things would probably not have gone as far as they have if much of the world had not bought into the lies about Palestinians having control over the Israeli land they live on. Now, they feel justified in teaching their children to become suicide bombers and kill other people indiscriminately. Disgusting.

questionnaire · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 640

Jyust keep going like this, DT, then people can see quite clearly who the real trouble-makers and war-mongers are on this planet.

You see, you are entitled to your beliefs, but putting them into action with military force is another thing altogether.

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

Who said anything about military action? I thought that we were discussing Israels right to build a wall....?

LarreeMP3 · Joined: 12 Apr 2002 Posts: 1935

F*&k the palestinians. They want to destroy Israel completely. They do not want to live in peace.

Click here to listen to three decades of original Larree music!

Edited by: LarreeMP3 at: 7/12/04 16:15

RonOnGuitar · Joined: 08 Jan 2003 Posts: 1916

Quote:
They do not want to live in peace.

You are correct, Larree. But an Arab who just riding a bus beat you to that very point:

Masrawa thinks there is no choice but to build the barrier.

"These terrorists don't differentiate between Jews and Arabs, they just want to kill"

Steve disagrees here with both you and the Arab victim of terrorism. As I said, I'm not sure just how the reality would fit into the "religious conspiracy" theory. My guess is that it means whatever conspiracy used to explain the world (as he sees it), is in need of some fine tuning!

LarreeMP3 · Joined: 12 Apr 2002 Posts: 1935

Q is just a pseudo-intellectual half-wit who knows NOTHING except the propaganda he CHOOSES to believe because it fits his views. Truth doesn't matter to guys like Q.

questionnaire · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 640

Again nobody is up to the job of discussing the points I've made. You exist very near the bottom of the educational ladder. You lack the intelligence necessary to decipher the complex politics of the world. On the strength of what you write here, you would not even be allowed into a struggling university to study any social scientific, philosophical or arts discipline, you would be rejected out of hand. That is my professional opinion.

You are a trio of uneducated suburban windbags. Being in your company is like being trapped in an endless episode of 'King of the Hill'.

Now that Larree, the undisputed emperor of the imbeciles, is here, no discussion of any intellectual quality is possible. Debbie Mannas is right - the existence of people like you puts the concept of democracy itself into question. At one time it would have been possible to say "well, at least we can be thankful that imbeciles like that aren't running America", but, unfortunately that is no longer the case.

I can tolerate you no longer.

You f*cking stupid barbarians.