U.N. Nuke Watchdog Chief Visits Israel

[HKRockChick]

story.news.yahoo.com/news...0&ncid=716



By GEORGE JAHN, Associated Press Writer



TEL AVIV, Israel - Israel is extremely concerned about Iran's nuclear ambitions, the head of the U.N. atomic watchdog agency said Wednesday, an indication that the issue is preventing any change in Israel's nuclear policy.



"They're expressing concern about Iran," Mohamed ElBaradei, director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, said after talks with senior officials at Israel's secretive nuclear energy agency.



ElBaradei arrived in Israel on Tuesday to pitch for a Middle East free of nuclear weapons. Israel refuses to discuss its nuclear capacities, but it is thought to be the only state in the Middle East possessing nuclear weapons.



Later Wednesday, ElBaradei was scheduled to meet with the Israeli health minister and take an aerial tour over the country.



While declining to go into details about his talks, ElBaradei indicated Wednesday that fear that Tehran was trying to develop nuclear arms was a dominant theme.



ElBaradei's agency is probing nearly two decades of suspect nuclear activities in Iran that the United States, Israel and others say reflect attempts to make such weapons.



Tehran insists it only wants nuclear energy to generate power, but several IAEA reports over the past year have suggested the Islamic Republic has not fully cooperated with agency inspectors and has failed to clear up suspicions about its aims.



ElBaradei has suggested that the Israelis should at least consider loosening their taboo on talking about nuclear arms as part of any long-term Middle East settlement that would rid the region of such weapons.



He acknowledged Tuesday that he had no "magic wand" to change Israel's policy of so-called nuclear ambiguity.



"But in the long run you need to build a system, where nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction will not be part of your security structure," he said.



In Washington, Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) declined to take a stand Tuesday on whether Israel should be forced to open its reactors to inspection.



But Powell, at a joint news conference with Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom, renewed his demand for international pressure on Iran to stop what Washington says are attempts to build nuclear arms.



Earlier Tuesday, Israel Army Radio rebroadcast comments made in May by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites), who said he would not budge from the country's traditional "no show, no tell" policy.



"I don't know what he (ElBaradei) is coming to see. Israel has to hold in its hand all the elements of power necessary to protect itself, by itself," Sharon told the radio. "Our nuclear policy has proven itself and will continue."



Israel's doctrine of nuclear ambiguity is meant to deter its enemies, while denying them the rationale for developing their own nuclear weapons.



While ElBaradei was scheduled to meet Sharon Thursday, there were no plans to give him access to Israel's main nuclear facility near Dimona in the southern Negev Desert, which is the suspected center of its nuclear weapons program.



Israel has not signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, which would force it to declare itself a weapons state and curb its nuclear activities.



But ElBaradei said he hoped to persuade Israeli leaders to agree to a separate protocol curbing nuclear exports and imports.



Such a move would be mostly symbolic — Israel already has strict export and import commitments — and is seen as an attempt to nudge it toward increased cooperation with the IAEA.



Evidence that Israel has nuclear arms is overwhelming, much of it based on details and pictures leaked in 1986 by Israeli nuclear technician Mordechai Vanunu, as well as research and statements made by Israeli leaders.



Vanunu, who was freed in April after serving an 18-year sentence for espionage and treason, urged ElBaradei to persuade Israeli leaders to allow him into the Dimona plant.



"Now, after 18 years that my revelation has gone to all the world and I come out of prison and report to all the world, he too must go and demand to be inside Dimona and to report to IAEA and to all the world," Vanunu said on Israel's Channel One TV, in only his second interview since his release from prison.



Israel is believed to be the only country in the region to have nuclear missiles ready to launch. Experts say it may already have as many as 300 warheads as well as the capability of building more quickly.

[MIKE BURN]

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BBC/London



Wednesday, 7 July, 2004, 13:46 GMT 14:46 UK





Mr ElBaradei is in Israel as part of a push for a nuclear-free Middle East.



Hours before his arrival, Mr Sharon said Israel would continue with its policy of neither confirming nor denying it has nuclear weapons.



Israel is widely believed to have a large stockpile of nuclear warheads, but refuses to confirm or deny that it has a nuclear deterrent.



Mr ElBaradei was not scheduled to visit any Israeli nuclear facilities.



Mr Sharon, quoted by Israeli Army Radio, said the country did not intend to change its "no show, no tell" policy of nuclear ambiguity.



"I don't know what he [ElBaradei] is coming to see," Mr Sharon said.



"Israel has to hold in its hand all the elements of power necessary to protect itself by itself.



"Our policy of ambiguity on nuclear arms has proved its worth, and it will continue," Mr Sharon added, without elaborating.

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WHAT a joke and of course the USA back Israel even ignoring that Israel refuses to sign the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), something ALL civilized countries incl. Iran (!) did.



This has to be stopped and Israel pushed to it's limits.

I'm rather sick of hearing any defense for the actions of the Israeli government. All government members belong in front of a international war crime tribunal.

[DreamTone7]

Israel is unique in that it is not just a country, but a race and religion as well...one that has been persecuted for literally thousands of years. I see no evidence that Israel has any intentions of conquering other countries or using its "possible" nuclear weapons in any manner other than defensive. It is only interested in holding onto what it has. This should only worry a person/country if there is an intent to take away what they claim as theirs or attempt to otherwise persecute them. And without any real evidence at all that they even have nuclear weapons, any attempt to take action against them due to that possibility would have less justification than the US invasion of Iraq. Far less.

[MIKE BURN]

Just putting out one of your helpless arguments:

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And without any real evidence at all that they even have nuclear weapons, any attempt to take action against them due to that possibility would have less justification than the US invasion of Iraq. Far less.

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France once delivered the nuclear technology to Israel.

It is WELL known what they have, PLUS the USA lateron delivered secretly.



What a clan.



BTW... I also belong to a race and religion and my country did invent the nuclear technology we all speak about here. We have abstained from owning and using nuclear weapons. It's because we are civilized and do not try to make us look superior compared to other races and countries today.



Israel has lost ALL credit if you know what I mean?

[DreamTone7]

We all know that Israel has nuclear weapons just as we all know Iraq had chemical and biological weapons. There is no physical proof that Israel has nuclear weapons...and I'm not so sure that they do. Technology does not equate to a bomb. Just because they have the capability does not mean they have them. Keeping people guessing, as has been said, has worked for them...they don't have to have them for it to work. It's much like detente. You can't have it both ways. Either you condemn both Iraq and Israel on the same grounds...or not. And there was definitely more physical evidence in the case of Iraq.



BTW, when did Germany invent the nuclear bomb? It's my understanding that their heavy-water experiments in Norway during WWII were not yet complete (about one year away, according to US scientists)...and the US certainly had the bomb already finished. So what, exactly, are you talking about?

[MIKE BURN]

C'mon

Quote:

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Mr Sharon, quoted by Israeli Army Radio, said the country did not intend to change its "no show, no tell" policy of nuclear ambiguity.

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This is NOT the attitude of a civilized country and if it would be the attitude of Country XYZ, the USA already would have gone nuts about it. Isn't it?

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BTW, when did Germany invent the nuclear bomb? It's my understanding that their heavy-water experiments in Norway during WWII were not yet complete (about one year away, according to US scientists)...and the US certainly had the bomb already finished. So what, exactly, are you talking about?

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My time is short right now but here are some facts:



The experiments in Norway were propaganda, there was nobody involved holding the knowledge.



The inventors of the technology, namely Albert Einstein, Otto Hahn and Nils Bor, did swear an oath with their blood that they never would tell anybody, not Hitler, not Roosevelt, not Stalin, how the Atomic chain raction will work.



As a matter of fact one of their apprentices, a jew (accidentically) of German decent named Robert Oppenheimer did flee to the United States with duplicates of the construction sketches and he became "famous" over there for betraying the inventors of the Atomic Bomb and Relativity Theory while bringing "glory" to the great civilized nation of the USA. Einstein, Hahn and Bor later CONDEMNED the actions of Oppenheimer and wished eternal pain upon him for betraying the world



This is the real story.



Like Wernher von Braun was deported against his will (!!!) to the United States and helped to shoot Americans on the Moon with German rocket technology.

[questionnaire]

"I see no evidence that Israel has any intentions of conquering other countries" - DT



???????????????????????????????????????



I cannot believe you have just said that!!!!!







You're not one of these people who believe that Palestine is not really a country, are you?



Jews are not a separate 'race' to anyone else on the Levant - in fact 'semitic' describes anyone from the region in general. Zionists talk about wanting back their country, but there is no evidence whatsoever that they ever had any stable political control or legal ownership rights over that region. All they have are unreliable legends of 'promises from god' from their own religious texts. The establishment of modern Israel was one of the biggest disasters in 20th century history. It would have been better to put more effort into ensuring that Jews had equal treatment in the nations into which they had become assimilated.

[DreamTone7]

I can't believe I actually have to say this, but...there is a difference between a territorial dispute and invading another country. It just so happens that this dispute has been going on a long time. And if God says it belongs to Israel, who am I (or anyone else) to argue?



BTW, I have yet to see them nuke anybody over this dispute.

[questionnaire]

"I can't believe I actually have to say this, but...there is a difference between a territorial dispute and invading another country. It just so happens that this dispute has been going on a long time."



A territorial dispute? Are you joking?? The Palestinians have been farming those lands for centuries. The Arab world was generous to allow the Israelis to move in in 1948 without too much violent reaction, but Israeli expansion after 1967 is the root of the problem. Do you honestly believe that all those houses the Israelis bulldozed with American-manufactured equipment were sanctuaries for terrorists? Palestinian deaths outnumber Israeli deaths by (I think - someone correct me here if I'm wrong) about 20:1.



Do you know, I can't remember talking to anyone more misinformed about these issues than you and Ron. The right-wing cultural and media machines over there are very powerful indeed.



"And if God says it belongs to Israel, who am I (or anyone else) to argue?"



I cannot believe you have said this in 2004. It's just beyond belief. "Leave your farms immediately: we have been promised this land by a supernatural being that we invented to excuse our violence. Leave immediately, or we send in helicopter gunships and tanks."

[DreamTone7]

Actually, the Israelis kicked the Cannanites out of there long before the Palestinian people were on the scene. About 3500 years ago. They've (the Israelis) since been dragged off more than once, but they always have returned. So if it comes down to "who was there first", the Israelis have been there for quite awhile...long before the 1967 war.



Furthermore:

_____________________________________________

Perhaps one of the most misunderstood issues of the Middle East conflict is the issue of the phraseology regarding the Holy Land. We are constantly fed the terms “West Bank”, and “occupied territory”, and “pre-1967 borders”.



One of the most outrageous intended misperceptions of these phraseologies is the perception that the West Bank is “occupied Palestinian land”. This phrase is continually repeated, as though it was historically factual, by all the governments of the world and by the entire news media. It has become so commonly used that there hardly is any rebuttal to the accepted theory of the land being “occupied Palestinian territory” by any nation, including Israel itself. For this reason, Israel has been willing to give most of it away. They were even willing to negotiate the status of the city of Jerusalem, their beloved capital.



The idea that the West Bank is occupied Palestinian land has been accepted by almost everyone. Yet it is, in fact, one of the greatest lies ever perpetrated on the whole of humanity. This may sound like an outlandish statement, but please read on and decide for your own self. Yasser Arafat and the Palestinians claim that Palestine is their land, and that Jerusalem is their capital, and that Israel is occupying their land. To resist occupation, they assert the right to send suicide bombers into crowded bus stations, pizza parlors, etc., and kill innocent men, women and children. Furthermore, all Arab and Muslim countries philosophically support them in their claims and actions against Israel. Why? Is it because of their great affection for the Palestinian peoples?



Supposedly, because of this alleged occupation of Palestinian land by Israel, and because of this alleged crime committed against their Palestinian brothers, all Arabs hate Israel and want to destroy it. But this story-line doesn't convey the whole truth. The truth of the matter is that these Arab and Muslim nations hated Israel, and sought its extermination before the issue of “occupied territory” was ever invented! ( The 1948 and 1967 wars launched by the Arab nations produced the resultant territorial situation )



To anyone who is familiar with the facts, and has an objective eye, all this must be fascinating. Because never before has a complete lie, on such a large scale, been so politically successful. First, if Arab animosity toward Israel is based on their love and support for their Palestinian brothers – and in wanting their Palestinian brothers to have their own state – where was that love and support before the Jewish state existed? Why haven't they assimilated the Palestinian peoples into their own societies? Where was their great affinity for the Palestinian people when the kingdom of Jordan ruled Palestine? Why did they not accuse Jordan of “occupying Palestinian land”? Why didn't the Arab world and the United Nations call on Jordan to stop occupying Palestinian land, and why weren't there any UN resolutions demanding that Jordan grant statehood to Palestine? Second, where were the Palestinians themselves, with all their grievances and claims, when Jordan occupied the whole of the West Bank, including the city of Jerusalem?



Did you know that for 19 years, ( 1948 through 1967 ) Jordan occupied and ruled the entire West Bank, including Al Quds, or Jerusalem? Why weren't the Palestinians clamoring for a Palestinian state during that 19 year span? Why didn't Yasser Arafat send suicide bombers against Jordan? During that 19 year span of time, did we hear a word about >I?Palestine being occupied by the kingdom of Jordan? Did we hear anything about a Palestinian state? Did we hear a great outcry about Jerusalem being the capital of Palestine?



No, we did not.

Why not?

Well, the real reason is because Israel did not possess it. The greatest problem for the Muslim world is that Israel exists period. But, the insult of all insults is that Israel should occupy Jerusalem. Therein lies the need for the Arab and Muslim world to create a propagandist lie, and to use the poor people living in the region called Palestine as pawns in a religious war against Israel.



Another reason there had been no charge of occupation before 1967 is simply because there had never existed a Palestinian state in the past. A new Palestinian State was not needed as long as an Arab or Muslim state occupied Jerusalem?



And in the entire history of the roll call of nations, Jerusalem was never the capital of any country other than that of ancient Israel and modern Israel. So how can there be a claim on the city of Jerusalem as the capital of a state that has never even existed? Who could possibly have a more legitimate claim to Jerusalem than the Jewish people?



One of the problems here is that so few people know the history of the world. Hence, lies and more lies, repeated often enough, are assumed to be facts. This begs the question, “Who are the Palestinian people anyway. I have heard many scholars question the very notion of a What, you might ask, makes a tribe of people? Well, there are several elements that define a people: language, religion, culture, cuisine, geography, terrain, and history. For example, the Chinese and Japanese are both Oriental. Still, they are two different peoples, because they each have a different language, a different religion, a different culture and a different cuisine.



The Palestinians speak the same language, follow the same religion, manifest the same culture and eat the same cuisine as all other Arabs. They are really Arabic peoples of various backgrounds who happen to live in a region that came to be called Palestine. That name emanates from Rome. The great Roman Empire extracted the Jews from their ancient land of Israel in 70AD and renamed the region “Palestine”! The terminology of the land into Palestine has stuck now for 2000 years. It was a political attempt to eradicate the name of Israel from the region. But in this attempt, there is a loud historical fact that speaks forth even today.



Palestine is not, and never has been the name of a “country”, or the name of a “people”.



It is the merely a political name of a region, just like Siberia is a region, and not a country. There is no Siberian country, nor is there a Siberian people. It is a region. Just like the Sahara is a region, not a country. There is no Saharan country, nor is there a Saharan people. The Arabs living in that region are Libyans, Moroccans, etc. It is a region.



Because Palestine was a region, and not a country, Great Britain in 1920 was able to carve out 77% of it and give it to the Arabs living on the other side of the Jordan River and call it the Kingdom of Trans-Jordan. Because Palestine is a region, the United Nations was able to further divide the rest of it between the Jews and the Arabs living there in 1948.



Hence we obtained the term, “West Bank”. The “west bank” is simply the region on the western side of the Jordan River that the Kingdom of Jordan occupied in the original 1947 Partition Plan. After Jordan lost it in the 1967 war, it has taken on a different political persona. Since Israel acquired it in 1967, it has obtained its own political status. The transformation has resulted in the diplomatic need for yet another new partitioning in Palestine. Hence the rise of the likes of Yasser Arafat and the PLO.



Here are some other interesting facts regarding the region known today as Palestine. King David built the city of Jerusalem, and King Solomon, David's son, built the holy temple. This commonwealth ( state ) of Israel lasted for a thousand years. There was only one break, when, 400 years after King David, the Babylonian invaders occupied the land for 70 years. Then, with the help of Cyrus the Great of Persia , Israel came back to the land, rebuilt the temple and ruled for yet another 600 years.



Then, the Romans came and ruled the land, followed by the Roman Crusaders, then the Ottoman Empire ruled the land, followed by the British Empire. Finally, in 1948 Israel returned to its homeland and built a modern Jewish state on about 10% of its former territory. It was never – repeat, never – a “Palestinian state”.







So what is all this talk about occupied Palestinian land?





The Palestinian peoples certainly have a right to live there freely and happily. Nobody should move them away from their own private land. But from where comes the right for a Palestinian state? Is it simply because they live there? The concept of a new Palestinian State is a prefabrication by the powers of the world for a political and religious agenda!



Imagine if the Mexican-American community in California, whose numbers are greater than the number of Palestinians in the West Bank, decides tomorrow to claim that the United States is occupying their land, and because they live there and they want their own Mexican state. Imagine if the U.S. government says, "No, you can live here, but you cannot have sovereignty, you cannot have your own state," then they start sending suicide bombers, shooters, mortars, etc. into the rest of the country. What do you think would happen?



This is precisely why there was never any suggestion of a Palestinian state – not under the Romans, not under the Crusaders, not under the Turks, not under the English and not under the Arab kingdom of Jordan, not until after Israel was again established in its homeland. I believe it is the big lie of today's geo-political mindset, and the whole world has bought into it.

_____________________________________________



The website can be found at: www.focusonjerusalem.com/...eland.html

[questionnaire]

..... I keep asking you to stop clicking around crackpot websites and posting any old rubbish you find on them.



That post was full of misinformation and downright lies.



Here's some more reliable information about the 20th century Israel/Palestine problem, taken from some electronic notes that I put together from some respectable properly-published sources:



The state of Israel was created artificially at the end of the Second World War. Because today Israel is the main ally of western imperialism in the Middle East some people seem to think that Israel was created with the full backing of imperialism. In fact the creation of the state of Israel was a little more complicated than this. The British imperialists were actually opposed to the setting up of Israel, as we will show.



Britain and France carved out new colonies for themselves from the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. In 1914 with the outbreak of World War I, Britain promised the independence of Arab lands under Ottoman rule, including Palestine, in return for Arab support against Turkey which had entered the war on the side of Germany.



This was endorsed in 1916 when Britain and France signed the Sykes-Picot Agreement, which divided the Arab region into zones of influence. Lebanon and Syria were assigned to France, Jordan and Iraq to Britain and Palestine was to be internationalised. So in 1916 Britain had in fact promised these lands to the Arabs.



However, in 1917 Lord Balfour, the British Foreign Secretary sent a letter to the Zionist leader Lord Rothschild that later became known as "The Balfour declaration". He stated that Britain would use its best endeavours to facilitate the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people. At that time the population of Palestine was about 700,000 of which 575,000 were Muslims, 75,000 were Christian, and only 55,000 were Jews.



Thus the British promised Palestine both to the Jews and the Palestinians. Britain was not interested in the creation of Israel, but was pursuing its own interests in the region. It was trying to strengthen its position in the Middle East, and would continue to play off Arabs against Jews with this purpose in mind.



After the First World War, in 1920 Britain was granted a mandate over Palestine and two years later Palestine came effectively under British administration. In 1922 the Council of the League of Nations issued a Mandate for Palestine. The Mandate was in favour of the establishment for the Jewish people of a homeland in Palestine. This was in contradiction to the plans of British imperialism, which were to balance between the Jews and the Arabs (the old and tested method of Divide and Rule) in order to control the situation from above.



By 1939 the British imperialists had decisively rejected any idea of an independent Jewish state. In the same year the British government published a new White Paper restricting Jewish immigration and offering independence for Palestine within ten years. After the introduction of 75,000 more Jews into Palestine during the ensuing five years, the gates would be closed. The way would thus be open for a semi-dependent Arab state that would be a puppet of British imperialism. A divided population, as was the case in Northern Ireland, would have allowed the British to continue to play off one section against the other and thus to maintain overall control. The British required a buffer state which could guarantee them strategic control of the region between the Mediterranean and the Persian Gulf, and at the same time provide protection for the Suez canal.



The 1939 White Paper was rejected as inconsistent with the Mandate by the supervising body of the League of Nations, the Permanent Mandates Commission. But the League of Nations was becoming irrelevant, as the major powers were preparing to sort out their differences through war and Britain treated it with appropriate contempt. Four months later, the Second World War broke out; and the British government executed the White Paper policy as if Palestine had been a British possession. British imperialism restricted the number of Jews entering Palestine, at times brutally.



The most famous example of this was the treatment of the Romanian Jews trying to sail to Israel on the 'Struma'. This vessel arrived in Istanbul on December 20, 1941, carrying 750 Jewish refugees fleeing from @#%$ persecution. The Turkish authorities refused permission for these refugees to land in Turkey and enquired with the British whether they could go on to Palestine. The British refused them entry. Their ambassador in Turkey said that his government "did not want these people in Palestine." And he added, "…if they reached Palestine, they might, despite their illegality, receive humane treatment." The logic was that if they were humanely treated then there was the risk of a flood of Jewish refugees wanting to enter Palestine. In the end the ship was towed out to sea and on February 24 sank as the result of an explosion. Only two people survived. Thus huge numbers of desperate Jews were trapped in @#%$-occupied Europe with nowhere to go.



In spite of this brutal attempt to stop the flow of Jews into Palestine, the carefully prepared plans of British imperialism were rejected by the Zionists, who organised terrorist groups and launched a bloody campaign against both the British and the Palestinians. The aim was to drive them both out of Palestine and to pave the way for the establishment of the Zionist state.



Organisations like the Irgun (Irgun Zwai Leumi, literally the National Military Organisation) did not limit their actions to fighting the Arabs. Although they co-operated at times in putting down Arab guerrillas together with the British troops, when it became clear that British imperialism was playing a double game and had no intention of granting the Jews their desired homeland, the Irgun turned against the British. Under Begin it was responsible for the famous bombing of the King David Hotel on July 22, 1946, where the British high command was stationed.



After the Second World War the member states of the Arab League, which was formed in 1945, were led by the British to believe that the prospect of a Jewish state in Palestine had been finally erased by the White Paper of 1939. Accordingly, they announced their acceptance of the White Paper and looked forward to seeing the end of the Jewish attempt to create Israel in Palestine.



It was the Holocaust under the @#%$ in Europe that had created a completely new scenario. The Zionist idea of creating a homeland for the Jews in Palestine gained strength. More and more Jews were coming into Palestine. And these Jews had no intention of compromising over the question of the creation of Israel.



The Jews refused to submit to the British dictates, and their underground struggle resulted in the relinquishment of British Power in Palestine and also ruled out the transfer of sovereignty to the Arabs. The British were losing control of the situation. The position of the Jews was strengthened and they could no longer control the process. They thus referred the problem to the United Nations in early 1947.



The UN recommendation was for partition of Palestine with Jerusalem as an internationally administered city. The Palestinian Arabs, who accounted for 70% of the population and owned 92% of the land, were allocated 47% of the country! (UN resolution 181). A terrible crime was thus committed against the Palestinian people.



When the UN Special Committee on Palestine voted on this partition there were 33 votes in favour and 13 against, with 10 abstentions. Among those who abstained was Britain! Thus Israel was created in opposition to the plans of British imperialism.



However, the Arabs rejected the partition compromise of 1947 and encouraged, and armed, by the British, they prepared for war in an attempt to eliminate the Zionists and to prevent the birth of the Jewish state.



In May 1948, the surrounding Arab regimes launched the war against the embryonic Jewish state. The British before evacuating their forces had opened the land frontiers so that men and arms could pour in from the neighbouring Arab countries. At the same time they had refused to open a port for the Jews as recommended by the United Nations; and they maintained their blockade in the Mediterranean to prevent any reinforcements from reaching Israel.



In spite of this the Arab states suffered a humiliating defeat. Thus not only was the 1947 UN decision implemented, but Israel managed to take even more through a war of conquest.

[HKRockChick]

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And if God says it belongs to Israel, who am I (or anyone else) to argue?

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whose God? hahahahahahahahahaha



wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee







GOD is crying his eyes out right now at all the crap people keep attributing to him, by the likes of terrorists and the christian right wing to justify their personal agendas.

[questionnaire]

And here's some more reliable scholarship on the ancient and modern history of the region, taken from international historians. It shows that the Palestinian population's claim to that land is indisputable, because it was a relatively stable Hebrew state for only 78 years after they had taken it from the Philistines, who had established the first stable state and from whom the name 'Palestine' is taken. The Philistines are denigrated in the Judaeo-Christian bible (and still in popular culture - 'Philistine' means an uncultured person) but reputable archaeological and anthropological evidence shows that they were much more cultured and technically advanced than the rather wild Hebrew tribes. Their big 'sin' was to reject monotheism.



3'rd millennium BC : The Canaanites were the earliest known inhabitants of Palestine. They became urbanized and lived in city-states, one of which was Jericho . They developed an alphabet. Palestine's location at the center of routes linking three continents made it the meeting place for religious and cultural influences from Egypt, Syria, Mesopotamia, and Asia Minor. It was also the natural battleground for the great powers of the region and subject to domination by adjacent empires, beginning with Egypt in the 3d millennium BC.



2'rd millennium BC : Egyptian hegemony and Canaanite autonomy were constantly challenged by such ethnically diverse invaders as the Amorites, Hittites, and Hurrians. These invaders, however, were defeated by the Egyptians and absorbed by the Canaanites, who at that time may have numbered about 200000.



14th century BC : Egyptian power began to weaken, new invaders appeared: the Hebrews, a group of Semitic tribes from Mesopotamia, and the Philistines (after whom the country was later named), an Aegean people of Indo-European stock.



1230 BC : Joshua conquered parts of Palestine. The conquerors settled in the hill country, but they were unable to conquer all of Palestine.



1125 BC : The Israelites, a confederation of Hebrew tribes, finally defeated the Canaanites but found the struggle with the Philistines more difficult . Philistines had established an independent state on the southern coast of Palestine and controlled the Canaanite town of Jerusalem.



1050 BC : Philistines with there superior in military organization and using iron weapons, they severely defeated the Israelites about 1050 BC .



1000 BC : David, Israel's great king, finally defeated the Philistines, and they eventually assimilated with the Canaanites . The unity of Israel and the feebleness of adjacent empires enabled David to establish a large independent state, with its capital at Jerusalem.



922 BC : Under David's son and successor, Solomon, Israel enjoyed peace and prosperity , but at his death in 922 BC the kingdom was divided into Israel in the north and Judah in the south .



722-721 BC : When nearby empires resumed their expansion, the divided Israelites could no longer maintain their independence . Israel fell to Assyria.



586 BC : Judah was conquered by Babylonia, which destroyed Jerusalem and exiled most of the Jews living there. Nebuchadnezzar entered Jerusalem. The Temple was sacked and set fire to, and razed to the ground. The Royal Palace and all the great houses were destroyed, the population carried off in chains to Babylon. And they lamented on their long march into exile.



539 BC : Cyrus the Great of Persia conquered Babylonia and he permitted the Jews to return to Judea, a district of Palestine. Under Persian rule the Jews were allowed considerable autonomy. They rebuilt the walls of Jerusalem and codified the Mosaic law, the Torah, which became the code of social life and religious observance. The Jews were bound to a universal God.



333 BC : Persian domination of Palestine was replaced by Greek rule when Alexander the Great of Macedonia took the region. Alexander's successors, the Ptolemies of Egypt and the Seleucids of Syria , continued to rule the country . The Seleucids tried to impose Hellenistic (Greek) culture and religion on the population.



141-63 BC : Jews revolted under the Maccabees and set up an independent state.



132-35 BC : Jews revolts erupted, numerous Jews were killed, many were sold into slavery, and the rest were not allowed to visit Jerusalem. Judea was renamed Syria Palaistina.



63 BC : Jerusalem was overrun by Rome. Herod was appointed King of Judea. He slaughtered the last of the Hasmoneans and ordered a lavish restoration and extension of the Second Temple. A period of great civil disorder followed with strife between pacifists and Zealots, and riots against the Roman authorities.



37-4 BC : During the rule of King Herod the Great Jesus of Nazareth, peace be upon him was born. And years after, he began his teaching mission. His attempts to call people back to the pure teachings of Abraham and Moses were judged subversive by the authorities. He was tried and sentenced to death; "yet they did not slay him but only a likeness that was shown to them."



70 AD : Titus of Rome laid siege to Jerusalem. The fiercely defended Temple eventually fell, and with it the whole city. Seeking a complete and enduring victory, Titus ordered the total destruction of the Herodian Temple. A new city named Aelia was built by the Romans on the ruins of Jerusalem, and a temple dedicated to Jupitor raised up.



313 AD : Palestine received special attention when the Roman emperor Constantine I legalized Christianity. His mother, Helena, visited Jerusalem, and Palestine, as the Holy Land, became a focus of Christian pilgrimage. A golden age of prosperity, security, and culture followed. Most of the population became Hellenized and Christianized .



324 AD : Constantine of Byzantium marched on Aelia. He rebuilt the city walls and commissioned the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, and opened the city for Christian pilgrimage.



29-614 AD : Byzantine (Roman) rule was interrupted , however , by a brief Persian occupation and ended altogether when Muslim Arab armies invaded Palestine and captured Jerusalem in AD 638 .



638 AD : The Arab conquest began 1300 years of Muslim presence in what then became known as Filastin. Eager to be rid of their Byzantine overlords and aware of their shared heritage with the Arabs, the descendants of Ishmael, as well as the Muslims reputation for mercy and compassion in victory, the people of Jerusalem handed over the city after a brief siege. They made only one condition, That the terms of their surrender be negotiated directly with the Khalif 'Umar in person. 'Umar entered Jerusalem on foot. There was no bloodshed. There were no massacres. Those who wanted to leave were allowed to, with all their goods. Those who wanted to stay were guarantee protection for their lives, their property and places of worship.



Palestine was holy to Muslims because the Prophet Muhammad had designated Jerusalem as the first qibla (the direction Muslims face when praying) and because he was believed to have ascended on a night journey to heaven from the the old city of Jerusalem (al-Aqsa Mosque today) , where the Dome of the Rock was later built. Jerusalem became the third holiest city of Islam. The Muslim rulers did not force their religion on the Palestinians, and more than a century passed before the majority converted to Islam. The remaining Christians and Jews were considered People of the Book. They were allowed autonomous control in their communities and guaranteed security and freedom of worship. Such tolerance was rare in the history of religion . Most Palestinians also adopted Arabic and Islamic culture. Palestine benefited from the empires trade and from its religious significance during the first Muslim dynasty, the Umayyads of Damascus.



750 AD : The power shifted to Baghdad with the Abbasids, Palestine became neglected. It suffered unrest and successive domination by Seljuks, Fatimids, and European Crusaders. It shared, however, in the glory of Muslim civilization, when the Muslim world enjoyed a golden age of science, art, philosophy, and literature. Muslims preserved Greek learning and broke new ground in several fields, all of which later contributed to the Renaissance in Europe. Like the rest of the empire, however, Palestine under the Mamelukes gradually stagnated and declined.



1517 AD : The Ottoman Turks of Asia Minor defeated the Mamelukes, with few interruptions, ruled Palestine until the winter of 1917-18. The country was divided into several districts (sanjaks), such as that of Jerusalem. The administration of the districts was placed largely in the hands of Arab Palestinians, who were descendants of the Canaanites. The Christian and Jewish communities, however, were allowed a large measure of autonomy. Palestine shared in the glory of the Ottoman Empire during the 16th century, but declined again when the empire began to decline in the 17th century.



1831-1840 AD : Muhammad Ali, the modernizing viceroy of Egypt, expanded his rule to Palestine . His policies modified the feudal order, increased agriculture, and improved education.



1840 The Ottoman Empire reasserted its authority, instituting its own reforms .



1845 Jewish in Palestine were 12,000 increased to 85,000 by 1914. All people in Palestine were Arabic Muslims and Christians.



1897 the first Zionist Congress held Basle, Switzerland, issued the Basle programme on the colonization of Palestine.

[DreamTone7]

Well Q, either you didn't read it or don't understand it. If you did (on both counts), then you would not have posted some of the things that you just posted. In short, Israel as a nation has been around a very long time...while Palestine is a location, not a nation. Those people referred to as Palestinians are Arabs...called Palestinians because of the land they occupy, and for no other reason. In other words, they don't even have a legal case to make as they are not a nation...but much of the world has skipped over this little fact. The Arabs outright love it!

[HKRockChick]

Quote:

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called Palestinians because of the land they occupy

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You are American because of the land you occupy. And that land is called _________?



You just contradicted yourself.