This board is now just neo-con propaganda ..

[questionnaire]

..... and if you look at the number of replies you'll see that nobody is interested in Ron and Seismo's puerile, thick-headed, ill-informed claptrap.



The fact is, Bush and his cronies lied through their teeth, Western armed services personnel have died, innocent Iraqis have died and now the United Corporations of America have what they wanted (if they can stop the Islamic fundamentalists spoiling the party).



Your BS is toxic and dangerous. Go away and get an educaton, willya?



My final advice? Just ignore these educationally challenged cowboys and read Noam Chomsky's well-researched and clearly-written book 'Hegemony Or Survival: America's quest for global dominance'. Unlike our resident intellectually lazy gobshites who get their info from click-clicking on wacko websites from the unregulated internet, he actually knows what he's talking about.



My parting shot. So long, cowboys.

[MIKE BURN]

Well,



then better continue to help to put the neo-cons into the corner where they belong

[Seismic Anamoly]

Well, well, well...the walking, talking, infantile-name-calling, socialist dictionary hath returned, just as we knew he would.



What is this, Hall....the 5th, 6th, or 7th time you've bid us farewell and told us you were going to take your ball and go home??



Pathetic.



And....why is it that every time you show up, you can't help but resort to tactics commonly found in most 5 to 6 year-olds and throw out these little juvenile, insulting nicknames for anyone who doesn't adhere to your beliefs?



Are you truly THAT insecure, jealous, and paranoid, living under your little security blanket away from the real world in your tiny little corner of Academia??



I visualize Linus of Charlie Brown fame here; sucking his thumb, hugging his blanket, and throwing a tantrum when anyone takes an opposing view. Have you lost your Binky? Awwwwww....



Even MORE Pathetic.



Go or stay, but make a decision and stick to it...if you can.



SURELY a man of your (self-proclaimed) intelligence and distinction can do THAT.



Yeeeeeeeeee-Haaaaaaaaahhhhh, Pardna!!







Your Favorite Cowboy

[Galmin]

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Y'know the cool thing about the cowboy is how he'd ride in to save a village, take care of the dirty bizness the villagers had cowered from and then ride off into the sunset. It's actually quite the honorific tribute to be counted among such American nobility.

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All this time I thought the function of a cowboy was to get the cattle from one place to another. Wow.

[RonOnGuitar]

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the 5th, 6th, or 7th time you've bid us farewell and told us you were going to take your ball and go home?

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Somehow I'm reminded of a teen years g/f, "I'm really breaking up with you this time!!". Would repeatedly call to tell me that and I'd be thinkin' "puh-leeeze mean it this time, puh-leeze!". I shoulda asked the folks to change our phone #. "I called to tell you that I really I don't miss you - really!"....ah, well......



Y'know the cool thing about the cowboy is how he'd ride in to save a village, take care of the dirty bizness the villagers had cowered from and then ride off into the sunset. It's actually quite the honorific tribute to be counted among such American nobility. Even more so, since we don't bestow titles: duke, knight, lord, etc.



And this time I mean it, really I do. Okay, not really - but next time I'll mean it!..... Probably, for sure - but then again.....well, at least I mean it this time, harumpfff!!

Edited by: RonOnGuitar at: 6/28/04 17:37

[RonOnGuitar]

That's okay, Gal - det är ingen ko på isen. The overwhelming majority of Americans would be just as clueless on Lucia tradition or SPEX. By nature, the meaning and understanding of local cultural concepts vary worldwide.

[Galmin]

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By nature, the meaning and understanding of local cultural concepts vary worldwide.

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So you interpret the denomination "Cow - boy" as something else than a cattle hearder?

[DreamTone7]

Go easy on him...he's obviously never seen a John Wayne western.

[AQUARIAN AGE]

...and now kids, go and listen to Gil Scott Heron´s "B-movie" again!!!!

[RonOnGuitar]

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Go easy on him...he's obviously never seen a John Wayne western

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LOL, but Galmin's question is a good and valid one:

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So you interpret the denomination "Cow - boy" as something else than a cattle hearder?

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Correct. And if you break it down like that from a compound word, it gets even more meaningless. A cow-boy would seem to indicate a half cow/half boy, somewhat on the order of the Greek "minotaur".



Or if you were to take the term "fireman". Fire & man? It's meaningless linguitisically - but it's a considered a brave occupation.



This is in the area of what might be called "cultural archetypes". The meaning is best understood by a given culture's context. DT7 mentioned John Wayne - when he passed away some years ago, one Japanese paper's headline read "Mr. America is dead", which captured the concept pretty well.



If you come to the assistance of a woman - perhaps to help her change a car tire that had gone flat, she might say "You're my knight in shining armour!". That, of course, is borrowing from a British cultural archetype. But it's context is based on the perceived nature and attributes of a knight. Otherwise, such words of thanks would have no meaning.



If were to ask a (American) football fan which team is known as "America's Team", the correct answer would be the Dallas Cowboys. (The fan might have his own preferred team who he thinks deserves the title instead!)



In pro football you'll also find the Minnesota Vikings, which is based on the common - at least in the US - perception of the Vikings. Same with the comic strip "Hägar the Horrible".



Below, Hägar and Vikings football team logo







There's not much relation to the perception and the real thing. For one, I don't believe any vikings wore helmets with horns sticking out. And though they did a fair amount of pillaging, that's just a tiny piece of the reality. They would best be perceived as traders & settlers that spread quite far into Russia, to Arabia and to North America - if one goes by anthropology and historical evidence. But the common perception is that they were just major buttkickers; a good image for a football team. A Scandinavian historian would laugh at the common misperception.



At any rate, to Americans the term "cowboy" should be taken as a high complement, as being called a "Knight". Both are cultural icons of excellence, except cowboys aren't much for medals and such. My image-icon is "The Lone Ranger", who was known for helping people who where unable to help themselves and who left before the people could thank him. The common line at the end of almost every TV episode/movie of the Lone Ranger was someone asking "Say - who was that masked man? He left before we got to thank him".



He has the "Ranger's Creed" that goes:



"I believe that to have a friend,

a man must be one.



That all men are created equal

and that everyone has within himself

the power to make this a better world.



That God put the firewood there

but that every man

must gather and light it himself.



In being prepared

physically, mentally, and morally

to fight when necessary

for that which is right.



That a man should make the most

of what equipment he has.



That 'This government,

of the people, by the people

and for the people'

shall live always.



That men should live by

the rule of what is best

for the greatest number.



That sooner or later...

somewhere...somehow...

we must settle with the world

and make payment for what we have taken.



That all things change but truth,

and that truth alone, lives on forever.



In my Creator, my country, my fellow man."



There's also the "King Of Cowboys", the late Roy Rogers. The "cowboy qualities" are almost interchangable.



If you were to look at the film "Blazing Saddles" - a great movie parody of traditional westerns written/directed by Mel Brooks - to get much of the humour content you'd need the traditional cowboy/western context. Blazing Saddles would be best viewed as an oddball version of "High Noon", which had Gary Cooper as close to the prototype cowboy-hero as you might find; someone who stands alone, if need be, to do the right thing.



All in all, I'm intensely pleased if someone denotes me as a "cowboy" - it's actually quite an honor. Especially more so if it's intended as derision. It's like me trying to insult someone by calling him "good sir knight" or "m'lord"! LOL.

[AQUARIAN AGE]

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Well, the first thing I want to say is…”Mandate my ass!”

Because it seems as though we’ve been convinced that 26% of the registered voters, not even 26% of the American people, but 26% of the registered voters form a mandate – or a landslide. 21% voted for Skippy and 3, 4% voted for somebody else who might have been running.



But, oh yeah, I remember. In this year that we have now declared the year from Shogun to Reagan, I remember what I said about Reagan…meant it. Acted like an actor…Hollyweird. Acted like a liberal. Acted like General Franco when he acted like governor of California, then he acted like a republican. Then he acted like somebody was going to vote for him for president. And now we act like 26% of the registered voters is actually a mandate. We’re all actors in this I suppose.



What has happened is that in the last 20 years, America has changed from a producer to a consumer. And all consumers know that when the producer names the tune…the consumer has got to dance. That’s the way it is. We used to be a producer – very inflexible at that, and now we are consumers and, finding it difficult to understand. Natural resources and minerals will change your world. The Arabs used to be in the 3rd World. They have bought the 2nd World and put a firm down payment on the 1st one. Controlling your resources will control your world. This country has been surprised by the way the world looks now. They don’t know if they want to be Matt Dillon or Bob Dylan. They don’t know if they want to be diplomats or continue the same policy - of nuclear nightmare diplomacy. John Foster Dulles ain’t nothing but the name of an airport now.



The idea concerns the fact that this country wants nostalgia. They want to go back as far as they can – even if it’s only as far as last week. Not to face now or tomorrow, but to face backwards. And yesterday was the day of our cinema heroes riding to the rescue at the last possible moment. The day of the man in the white hat or the man on the white horse - or the man who always came to save America at the last moment – someone always came to save America at the last moment – especially in “B” movies. And when America found itself having a hard time facing the future, they looked for people like John Wayne. But since John Wayne was no longer available, they settled for Ronald Reagan – and it has placed us in a situation that we can only look at – like a “B” movie.



Come with us back to those inglorious days when heroes weren’t zeros. Before fair was square. When the cavalry came straight away and all-American men were like Hemingway to the days of the wondrous “B” movie. The producer underwritten by all the millionaires necessary will be Casper “The Defensive” Weinberger – no more animated choice is available. The director will be Attila the Haig, running around frantically declaring himself in control and in charge. The ultimate realization of the inmates taking over at the asylum. The screenplay will be adapted from the book called “Voodoo Economics” by George “Papa Doc” Bush. Music by the “Village People” the very military "Macho Man."



“Company!!!”

“Macho, macho man!”

“ Two-three-four.”

“ He likes to be – well, you get the point.”

“Huuut! Your left! Your left! Your left…right, left, right, left, right…!”



A theme song for saber-rallying and selling wars door-to-door. Remember, we’re looking for the closest thing we can find to John Wayne. Clichés abound like kangaroos – courtesy of some spaced out Marlin Perkins, a Reagan contemporary. Clichés like, “itchy trigger finger” and “tall in the saddle” and “riding off or on into the sunset.” Clichés like, “Get off of my planet by sundown!” More so than clichés like, “he died with his boots on.” Marine tough the man is. Bogart tough the man is. Cagney tough the man is. Hollywood tough the man is. Cheap stick tough. And Bonzo’s substantial. The ultimate in synthetic selling: A Madison Avenue masterpiece – a miracle – a cotton-candy politician…Presto! Macho!



“Macho, macho man!”



Put your orders in America. And quick as Kodak your leaders duplicate with the accent being on the dupe - cause all of a sudden we have fallen prey to selective amnesia - remembering what we want to remember and forgetting what we choose to forget. All of a sudden, the man who called for a blood bath on our college campuses is supposed to be Dudley “God-damn” Do-Right?



“You go give them liberals hell Ronnie.” That was the mandate. To the new “Captain Bly” on the new ship of fools. It was doubtlessly based on his chameleon performance of the past - as a liberal democrat – as the head of the Studio Actor’s Guild. When other celluloid saviors were cringing in terror from McCarthy – Ron stood tall. It goes all the way back from Hollywood to hillbilly. From liberal to libelous, from “Bonzo” to Birch idol…born again. Civil rights, women’s rights, gay rights…it’s all wrong. Call in the cavalry to disrupt this perception of freedom gone wild. God damn it…first one wants freedom, then the whole damn world wants freedom.



Nostalgia, that’s what we want…the good ol’ days…when we gave’em hell. When the buck stopped somewhere and you could still buy something with it. To a time when movies were in black and white – and so was everything else. Even if we go back to the campaign trail, before six-gun Ron shot off his face and developed hoof-in-mouth. Before the free press went down before full-court press. And were reluctant to review the menu because they knew the only thing available was – Crow.



Lon Chaney, our man of a thousand faces - no match for Ron. Doug Henning does the make-up - special effects from Grecian Formula 16 and Crazy Glue. Transportation furnished by the David Rockefeller of Remote Control Company. Their slogan is, “Why wait for 1984? You can panic now...and avoid the rush.”



So much for the good news…



As Wall Street goes, so goes the nation. And here’s a look at the closing numbers – racism’s up, human rights are down, peace is shaky, war items are hot - the House claims all ties. Jobs are down, money is scarce – and common sense is at an all-time low with heavy trading. Movies were looking better than ever and now no one is looking because, we’re starring in a “B” movie. And we would rather have John Wayne…we would rather have John Wayne.



"You don’t need to be in no hurry.

You ain’t never really got to worry.

And you don’t need to check on how you feel.

Just keep repeating that none of this is real.

And if you’re sensing, that something’s wrong,

Well just remember, that it won’t be too long

Before the director cuts the scene…yea."



“This ain’t really your life,

Ain’t really your life,

Ain’t really ain’t nothing but a movie.”



[Refrain repeated about 25 times or more in an apocalyptic crescendo with a military cadence.]



“This ain’t really your life,

Ain’t really your life,

Ain’t really ain’t nothing but a movie.”

---

[Galmin]

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Go easy on him...he's obviously never seen a John Wayne western.

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Look, DT, this might come as a shock to you.





The John Wayne you know was not a cowboy, he was an actor! In all his flicks you've ever seen he was playing a role.

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There's not much relation to the perception and the real thing. For one, I don't believe any vikings wore helmets with horns sticking out. And though they did a fair amount of pillaging, that's just a tiny piece of the reality. They would best be perceived as traders & settlers that spread quite far into Russia,

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Yup. D'ya know that 'Rus' in Russia origins from the term "rowing" or "rowing person" and that a 'Rus' was a Viking who journeyed by rowing?



Cowboys were cattlehearders, Knights were far from the romantic myth sprung from Mallory's "Le Morte D'Arthur" and similar 'pearls' of litterature.



When I call someone cowboy, be sure I mean cattlehearder.

[Seismic Anamoly]

Give it up, DT and Ron...



They'll never grasp it.

[DreamTone7]

Yeah, Seismo...I know. But only because they don't want to be inconvenienced by the truth. If I know the truth and don't speak it, that's on me. But if I speak it and they refuse to understand (or admit that they do), it's on them.

[RonOnGuitar]

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D'ya know that 'Rus' in Russia origins from the term "rowing" or "rowing person" and that a 'Rus' was a Viking who journeyed by rowing?

---

I knew Russia had been "named" by Norsemen, but didn't know what the root word meant.

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Cowboys were cattlehearders, Knights were far from the romantic myth sprung from Mallory's "Le Morte D'Arthur" and similar 'pearls' of litterature.

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However, we're speaking of the popular cultural mythology, which can only be understood within the context of the culture. For example it may mean nothing at all if someone tried to mock you by pointing a finger and saying"You --- You Viking!!". Or it may shame you. But if the term were connected with the imagery of being a great honored hero in the Jungian Norse collective mind, you'd probably smile and bask in the compliment!



This is why I suggest to folks that if they utlilize terminology not native to their own culture or national background, it could be embarrassing. Sometimes the result is funny. e.g. When I mentioned a 70s girl band "Fanny" to bbChris. The group's name is an innocent slang term, interchangable with "butt" in the US. But in Britian it's slang for the female genitalia. (I forgot that the group's name was considered quite shocking when they toured England)



Or like a short time back when Seismo said to bbChris he wouldn't be able to attend a concert or event because "I have bigger fish to fry". Chris asked "You have to fry fish???"; it was a funny exchange. US meaning of the phrase: "I have more important things I have to do".



Other times linguistic slips convey something more dark that the communicator did not intend. e.g. Debbie became upset when I noted that "neocon" is an anti-Semitic code-word. By way of example, I was able to quickly find this sentence on some racial supremacist (i.e. National Socialist, Hitlerian) BB.



"I prefer the term "neocon" to "inner circle" as a replacement in "polite conversation" for the word "jew". It's becoming more widely understood by more people."



And the saying "there's no cow on the ice" is likely meaningless to most of the world outside of Sweden. But it served as an illustration and to sneak in the word "cow".





People most usually try to make sense of something that is unfamiliar or ambigious, using their own frame of reference and bias.



By way of illustration the below, a classic in clinical psychology.



If you tell a group that you're going to show them a picture of a young girl with her head turned away from them, they would see that in this image.



Another group is told they will be shown a picture of an old hag with a long nose that has a wart on it. That is what they will see in the same picture (whereas the other group saw the girl).



It's only by asking the artist who created the picture what the drawing meant to him that you will get the correct concept. If you don't have use the originating artist's (or culture's) reference frame/meaning, a biased preconception of the actual picture would be incorrect.