Well, well...interesting...

[Seismic Anamoly]

Since this, according to its' name, is a "Political" forum also, some fresh "Political Propaganda" for ya...



THE USA AIN'T THE ONLY LYING IMPERIALISTIC GOVERNMENT RUNNING LOOSE ON THE PLANET, IT SEEMS

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....the basic cause of the violence is rooted in history, when India pledged in 1948 to hold a plebiscite where the people of Kashmir would be free to choose to join India or Pakistan. They reneged on that promise and did not allow the plebiscite to be held. Over a period of time they brushed the problem under the carpet - India did not even allow any alternative solution to be considered.

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How dare they; who woulda thunk it?



"Straight from the Horse's Mouth"

[debbie mannas]

just proves how little you know about ANYBODY'S history, including your own.



I suggest you start doing some reading on India's history, the partition of India, Kashmir, before you start talking imperialism.



but that is neither here nor there.



I find it funny how you appear to be adopting Bush's tactics... attempting to distract the people from the real issues by attacking other countries... hahahahahaha



Remember: This World Leader, the worlds only Superpower, (the US Govt) by its high handed foreign policies and double standards has turned the world on its head, just because it can. It has violated the UN's charter, and basically everything it has accused other countries of doing, it is guilty of.



If you want to be a leader, you HAVE to demonstrate fairhandedness for people to follow you.

[LarreeMP3]

...India and Pakistan are going to start it.



NOT the USA.

[debbie mannas]

Again, India has they will not use nukes first. If you read the history of India, you will know that the country has been invaded SEVERAL times over by all manner of people, the Greeks, the Mughals, the Brits, the Portuguese... but has NEVER been an aggressor.



Unfortunately, China has been feeding Pakistan with weapons, and Pakistan is sponsoring terrorism in Kashmir (yes, despite US efforts to stop it). The fact is there is a very large percentage of moderate muslims and non-muslims (hindus and christians) that will get butchered if the fundamentalists take over. Its a very delicate situation there and the Govt has been trying to keep it under control. Imagine what will happen if it becomes a fundamentalist islamic state, like the Taliban in Afghanistan?? That's the aim of the fundamentalists in Pakistan and they wont stop till they achieve that goal.



You do know that Kashmir is part of India, as once was Pakistan and Bangladesh??



Does anyone know the history?

[LarreeMP3]

...but has NEVER been an aggressor.





Sounds like India and Israel have a lot in common. Israel has been invaded by her Arab rat bastard neighbors who don't recognize her right to exist a number of times.

[debbie mannas]

Yeah, I'm living proof of all those invasions - I have some 5 mixes in me

[LarreeMP3]

And you are "mixed" quite well!

[Seismic Anamoly]

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just proves how little you know about ANYBODY'S history, including your own.

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Oh, I forgot...you know it all. Sorry.



Right.

[debbie mannas]

thanks Laree







SA, thats OK, I accept your apology graciously.

[MIKE BURN]

A short "tour" through the history of Kashmir:

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The Muslim and Hindu peoples of Kashmir have lived in relative harmony and friendliness since the 13th century when Islam first became the majority religion in Kashmir.



The Sufi-Islamic way of life that ordinary Muslims followed in Kashmir complemented the rishi tradition of Kashmiri Pandits (Hindus), leading to a syncretic culture where Hindus and Muslims revered the same local saints and prayed at the same shrines.



Periodically however, there have been rulers and leaders who have had a narrow view of Islam, and have subjected Hindu minorities to great cruelties and discrimination. The current armed secessionist movement in Kashmir mostly derives its inspiration from these people.



A canard is now being spread past few years by the secessionist-terrorists and their sympathizers that in 1990 Kashmiri Pandits left Kashmir willingly, having been "tricked" by then Jammu and Kashmir Governor Jagmohan. Nothing could be farther from the truth.



The fact is that Kashmiri Pandits were driven from their homeland after a campaign of intimidation and harassment was launched against them by the military-wing of the secessionists. Kashmiri Pandits were forced from their hearths and homes at the point of gun. The objective of this ethnic cleansing was to create a minority free Kashmir valley where the goal of Islamization could be easily forced on the ordinary people.



...............................................



Dogra Period : 1846 1957

The two Anglo-Sikh wars led to the final extinction of Sikh soverignty in the Punjab and by virtue of the treaties of Lahore and Amritsar the British who had by now become undisputed masters of India, transferred and made over in perpetuity, the independent position to the Maharaja Gulab Singh and heirs male of his body, all the hilly and mountaneous country situated to the east of Indus, and west of Ravi river. In consideration of this transfer Maharaja Gulab Singh paid to the British government the sum of 75 lakhs of rupees. Maharaja Gulab Singh entered Srinagar on 9th November 1848 at 8 in the morning.



The Dogra royal line traces its descent from the ancient Kshatriyas mentioned frequently in Mahabharata. The Dogra ruler claimed that they belong to the Surya Vanshi (sun born) race. Maharaja Gulab Singh was a man of great vigour, foresight and determination. He repressed opposition and crime with an iron hand and he was universaly feared and respected.



He crushed gangs of organized plunderers, and murderers in the valley known as Galwans, and also broke the power of Bombas and Khokhas the inhabitants of Jhelum valley region below Varamulla, who brought havoc to every home in the valley by following a policy of arson and plunder. Large number of forts were built in their territory which were garrisoned with troops.



It was because of his energetic measures that the conditions of the people improved and after many years some confidence was inspired in the permanece of administration. The people got a spell of peace and order, after centuries of lawlessness. The greatest service of the first Dogra ruler is the foundation he laid of the modern Jammu and Kashmir State.



It was Gulab Singh who conquered one by one different places and regions of the state, Jammu,. Poonch, Ram Nagar, Basoli, Bhahderwah, Kishtwar, Bhimbar, Rajauri, Sikardu, Kharmang, Kiris, Khaplu, Sheghar, Astor Gilgit, Chitral, Yasin, Hunza, Nagar, and Punial.



In the words of K. M. Panikar an area of more than eighty thousand sq. miles including part of Tibet, as well as part of Pamier, besides the genuinely kingdoms of Jammu and Kashmir came into Maharaja Gulab Singh's possession.



This area had never been effectively united under one ruler and much of it with of course, the exception of the valley of Kashmir had never known any settled govt. " Writes P. N. Bamzai : " Mahraja Gulab Singh is the only Indian ruler to have carved out a state during the 19th century out of the wreckage of the great kingdom of Sikhs. Moreover he is the only Indian ruler to have extended the frontiers of India to their natural boundary ." Even Dr. Soft who is not very kind in his comments writes about him: "Gulab Singh was unquestionably a remarkable figure in the history of Northern India during the first half of the 19th Century.



He was a distinguished soldier and diplomat and knew the state craft of his own days exceedingly well."



The Maharaja died in 1857 after a rule of 11 years, during which period he laid the foundation of a sound system of administration. He was succeeded by Maharaja Ranbir Singh who ruled from 1857 to 1885. It was in his time that the rule of law commenced in the state.



Almost all the laws, civil and criminal, which the British had introduced in India were with some modifications made applicable to the state. The various state departments were organised on the pattern of departments as these existed in British India. A slight attempt was also made to assess the amount of land revenue at a fixed amount.



In 1885 Maharaja Sir Pratap Singh ascended the throne and he ruled for a period of 40 years. It is in the time of this Maharaja that the real modernisation of the state took place and several progressive reforms were carried through.



Sir Walter Lawrence carried the first assessment of land revenue system in the state on scientific lines. The two mountain roads-Jhelum valley road and Banihal Cart road were built linking the state with the rest of India.



A scheme for drainage of the valley reclaiming waste-land and preventing floods by digging flood channels was put into operation. Construction of water reservior at Harwan and establishment of electric generating plant at Mohra was also undertaken during this period. Two colleges in the state besides large number of education institutions were also established by the order of the Maharaja.



The administrative machinery was completely overhauled. There was development in the means of communication and telegraphs, telephones and post offices were opened in many places. The isolation of Kashmir from the rest of the country was now a thing of the past, and large number of people, mostly europeans began to visit the valley.



The fame of the valley, its climate and beauty spread in all parts of the world and it can truly be said that an era of tourist traffic started in right earnest in the state.



Many efforts were made by Englishmen to obtain the right of purchasing land here for building houses. This would have turned Kashmir into a British Colony.



The Maharaja stoutly refused to entertain the proposal, and this actually led to the construction of House Boats. After the death of Maharaja Pratap Singh his nephew Maharaja Sir Hari Singh ascended the throne in 1925. He continued to govern the state till 1950.



During this period, large number of Indians and also foreigners came to enjoy the bracing climate of the valley. Gulmarg before independence almost looked like an English town during summer. The same was the case with Nagin Lake. Maharaja Hari Singh modernised the state and carried out a large number of reforms. It was in his time that the popular elements began to be associated with the Goverment.



The most important thing that had far reaching consequences in the future history of the state was the birth of political parties and the growth of political consciousness in the state during this period.



But even more important was the liberation of the country from the British Yoke in 1947, that ended all the traces of foreign domination, absolutism and autocracy in our country.



It was on 26th Jan. 1957 that the Kashmir Constiuent Assembly ended the hereditary rule of the Hindu monarchy in the state exacly after one hundred and ten years of its establishment. The liberation of India, facilitated the establishment of responsible government in Jammu and Kashmir State, but the liberisation also brought the division of our country on religious and communal consideration.



This division led to disatrous consequences plunging northern India into a sort of bloody civil war. The Pakistan Government invaded the state, and encouraged the Tribal people and other titanic hordes of medieval barbarism to carry loot, plunder, death and destruction into the hearths and homes of innocent Kashmiris in general and among Hindus in particular.



Pakistan wanted to grab Kashmir, even though its ruler in the terms of Independance Act, had acceded to India, and signed the instrument of Accession as required under the said Act.



The main burden of Pakistan invasion had to be borne by the Hindus of the districts of Muzzafarbad, Baramulla, Poonch, Rajuari, Mirpur, Bhimber, Kotli, Skardu, Gilgit and Ladhak.



Thousands of people became the victims and lost their lives for no fault of theirs, and property worth crores accumulated for decades was lost just within a weeks time.



This was the result of the mighty Congress Party with its host of gallant leaders bowing disgracefully before fanaticism, ' Two Nation Theory ', and its author Mr. Jinah.



The Congress leaders accepted the partition of India, but totally ignored or could not perhaps realise its disastrous consequences. In short, the Hindus here have paid the penalty rather heavily. Kashmir was attacked in 1965 and 1971 by Pakistan. In spite of these historical vicissitudes the popular government has been trying its level best to mitigate the suffering of the people, thanks to the generous financial assistance of the Central Government.



The importance of the state of Jammu and Kashmir should never be lost sight of, because the borders of our country here touch the boundaries of Pakistan and China - the two states which are hostile to India.

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[Seismic Anamoly]

BRING ON THEM NUKES

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....at least 25 people died in a day of violence on Tuesday in Indian-administered Kashmir.

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Despicable.