Need help turning my weakness into my greatest strength!

[bbchris]

Ok I'm confessing to the world now that I cannot tune a guitar by ear. I own a Boss tuner and use it religiously. However it's time I learnt to do it. So any advice - website links - what your Mum told you or anything! I haven't even got a clue hahahaha



I know when it's OUT of tune!!

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[DreamTone7]

OK chris. I'll try. Here's where you find out if you have a good ear. First thing is to make sure your intonation is correct. Have this done by somebody with a strobe-tuner, and with a fresh set of strings. Second thing is to get all the strings pretty close. Tune to something you know is right. This is to eliminate the neck shifting while you tune due to changes in tension. Then, start with the G-string (no, I'm not trying to be funny). The 12-tone western scale is not perfect, so the tuning should be tempered. This is why you should start in the middle (at the G-string). Tune the G so it is spot on with whatever you're tuning to (bass, keyboard, whatever). The way you tell is if you can hear "beats". Sort of a pulsing when both notes (yours, and what you're tuning to) are being played at the same time. It also sounds kind of like a chorus effect if it is way off. When the G is right, then move to the B. Do this around the 5th through 8th fret. Fret the G at the 5th, and the B at the 6th, and make sure there are no beats when both are played. Then, check it with the G at the 5th and the B at the 8th. Then move to the high E. You can use the B and E at the 6th, then check with the B at the 6th and the E at the 8th. When it's right, check again with the G at the 5th and the E at the 8th. This is the same note one octive lower. There should be no beats. Then, work your way down to the lower strings using the 5th and 7th frets...remembering to check the octive intervals as you go. When you are done, the guitar will be in tune with itself...so it all depends on how well you have the G-string in tune. The reason you tune at the 5th through 8th frets is because the strings on a properly set up guitar are a little sharp near the nut and a little flat around the 9th and 10th fret.



I know...it sounds like a pain in the neck. But when you've done it for awhile it becomes second nature. As you migh imagine, I'm a little anal when it comes to being in tune...but a guitar in tune is a powerful instrument. A guitar out of tune is a noisemaker.



If all else fails, buy one of these:



www.musiciansfriend.com/s...id/210045/



It'll get you spot on...but be aware that it's almost as much trouble getting it right as it is using the method I gave you. Good luck, and enjoy! (Or try to, anyway)

[RonOnGuitar]

If you just mean tuning a guitar, it's pretty simple - I could write it out, but there's a zillion links like this that already have done so:



Tuning a guitar to itself



A simple method I used to use was to think of a song I played that alternated between 2 chords (E & A) a whole lot. For example, the great Wilson Pickett's song "The Midnight Hour".



It goes (in the key of E):



E ------------------A--------E

I'm gonna wait for the midnight hour

E-------------------A--------E

That's when my love begins to shine



I'd hum/sing and tune the 6th (low E) & 5th (A) strings so they matched the song.



Then I go on to tune the 4th (D)string using the same song, mentally transposing it from E-A to A-D : the lyrics above would have A first and D second.



When that sounded right, I'd apply the same tech tuning the 3rd (G) string, going between D to G until it sounded right.



Since the ever-troublesome 2nd string (B) didn't follow that pattern, I'd skip to the high E (1st) string, tuning it so that it octavally matched the low E (6th)string.



Then I'd just go back to the now-tuned G string and play the the 4th fret . That produces the B to tune the 2nd string (B).



Then I'd do some chords e.g. G-C-D, E-A-B to check it out. If something seemed off, I'd fine-tune it. If it was way off, I'd do the whole routine again.



It took about a minute to tune the guitar that way, it's less complicated than it sounds, but it worked for me. Later on I realized I was just doing a mathematic equation:

E is to A

as

A is to D

as

D is to G

and, once the high E is tuned to low E,

B is to to E

as

E is to A



That was as at my beginning guitar-tuner level. After awhile it just became automatic - without the mental-work, lol.



Then I picked up on how the guitar sounds when it's tuned and strummed without doing any fingering/chording. Just it's open, natural (tuned) "strum sound". I think once a person keeps that sound in his/her memory file, it's much easier & quicker to do a tuning. It's auto-pilot now, but it took some time for me to find what works best for me.



But if you're talkin' tuning it to correct pitch, Chris, rather than just tuning the guitar to itself, I'd go with getting a tuning fork at a music store. If you got one string in perfect pitch, than you have the base for get the others right.



I have a bit of a wierd advantage on that. My right ear has tinnitus (ringing) - it's not usually noticable, but is louder in proportion to the quietness of my surroundings. Now, the cool thing is that it's almost a perfect high "E" (true), and matches the octave on the first E string. So I have a built-in tuner, hahahahaha!!!



I know as you set aside the Boss tuner and experiment in a relaxed way (not "I gotta tune this ^&*(#$ guitar!!", lol) that you'll find a way that comes natural and works just fine for you!

Edited by: RonOnGuitar at: 6/4/04 19:24

[MIKE BURN]

Oh well, there are so many ways to tune a guitar.



Myself I use the flageolet technique for a correct tuning,

combined with "trimming" chords which means that after I have performed a raw tuning I will narrow every single string to the 'perfect' pitch but then will also play some certain "approved" chords where I look out for phasings of special string combinations and narrow all these phasings down to a compromise level. Keep in mind that you use naturally different powers to press down the strings on different locations of the fretboard and that this alters your pitch as well. The perfect guitar pitch is a combination of technical pitch/tension of the strings combined with the changing pressing power experience described above.



You will always need a "reference" - A, I always start with the A-string. The reference A has to come from a tuning fork, a plain sine-A without any effects (like chorus for example) from a keyboard or from a electric guitar tuner.



As a matter of fact, if you have good ears, you will experience that every guitar has to be tuned different.

This has to do with the gauge of the strings you are using, the wood, the settings of the bridge of your guitar and the overall length of your guitar neck, last but not least the room temperature and the temperature of your guitar.



All these factors combined are important for a nice tuning.



Remember: There is NO perfect tuning for a guitar in the mathematical sense. That's why a guitar tuned with a guitar tuner "blindly" will never be in tune overall. Why? Imagine you tune a guitar for yourself and let's assume the guitar is in perfect tune. Now I take your guitar with my big fingers and I play a D-Major chord... well... I use probably more power to press the strings and therefore I bend the strings. The lighter the strings are the more I will detune them by varying the power I press them down on the fretboard resulting in a different pitch and overall tuning.



Oh well.... it's all damn complicated and simply a matter of experience, that's why I don't write down any 'tips' how you should tune your guitar. Most of the tips you are reading in books become obsolete by using different adjustments of your neck/bridge and string gauges.



What you need is somebody who knows how to tune a guitar and foremost who knows how to adjust your neck, bridge and everything. If the guitar is not adjusted right, you don't have to try to tune it. You will never have a satisfying tuining, because you will experience effects like the standard E-Major chord sounds cool, but the C-Major chord played on the 8th. fret with barré technique will sound awfully out of tune.



Whenever you tune a guitar you tune with a compromise, some guitars require slightly overpitched (high) g-strings, others slightly downpitched b-strings.



If we ever meet again, I will show you how to tune your guitar right with the flageolet technique, before that I will adjust the whole guitar right.



The first you always do when recording, practicing and playing with a band is to tune your guitar right. Before you do that give your guitar time to accomodate to the room temperature. If you tune your guitar in the band bus and then walk on stage through cold air.... forget your tuning. The guitar will be out of tune guaranteed. Wood "works" and so do your strings which are made of steel. You perfectly ruin your ears and senses and train your ears for tolerating imperfect pitch if you simply play according to the rule "oh well, somehow the tuning is right". You should always play with a perfectly adjusted instrument, that's a major difference.



As a general rule you should check your tuning after every performed song, if possible. When playing hard bendings during lead for example you will have to check your tuning before playing the next song or you may sound awfully detuned when hitting open chords.



I'm sorry, but I don't feel able to describe in written words how to tune your guitar right, the whole process is too complex if done right and foremost a matter of experience, repetition and intuition.

MIKE


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[bbchris]

Wow! Thank you so much Dreamtone7, Ron & Mike!!



I will print out the information and start working on this. I think using a tuner has made me lazy. And yes I must work on my intonation. Dreamtone7 - that's so clearly laid out - I will definitely try this! And yes there is NOTHING worse than an out of tune guitar. My Fender has a floating bridge too!



And yes thanks Ron for reminding me to do it in a relaxed manner. I HAVE put this on my one year goals (that I want achieved within one year) - and I'll practise it each time I pick her up. And funnily enough TOL used to do a cover of Midnight Hour so I know the song you mean!!! I'm a bit worried though - what's the difference between intonation and pitch? *expecting a barrage of laughter*



Mike - you explained a lot and beautifully! I think you'll have to come to HK as I wont take my Fender to Germany on holiday Yes, here the temperature difference is very important - outside its over 30 degrees Celsius but inside the clubs its 18 degrees - so yes I always know to tune up at the venue and leave my guitar on stage and tune up again before I start playing. This is why I wish I can do it by ear because it's a hassle during the set to unplug myself to retune - it's not a major problem in TOL as Chris W plays all the wild guitar leads but in my other band I'm the lead guitarist so I'm bending etc.



Again THANK YOU everyone!!

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[ED1G]

Iam with Chris on this one.... I use my Boss....



Paul

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[HKRockChick]

I have a "computer keyboard" and I tune the bass E string first and then tune the rest cause I remember the notes and which frets on the lower string each higher one corresponds to. I don't know how to use a tuner...

[RonOnGuitar]

Hiya Chris!



No - that's actually a very good question re: pitch & intonation!!



"Fixed intonation" (which I think you mean) you get from something that never or seldom needs to be tuned; a PC, a tuning fork, elec keyboard, guitar tuning device or a tuned piano are some examples of this.



Fixed intonation provides perfect "pitch" (i.e. spot-on, correct tone/tuning) and serves as the reference point for other instruments that tend to get out of tune.



Intonation, as a term in itself, is most commonly associated within the vocal area of speech/singing, but can be applied to a guitar or other instrument where pitch is also a variable.



e.g. I often tune to D instead of E and if I want the D to be "in pitch" I refer to something that has fixed intonation. In math terms - the guitar is a variable, the item I tune the guitar to is the constant.



There's one tiny PC program - freeware, too hahaha! - I often use as a good fixed ref point - it's a small (130k) zip file, nothing to install, you just unzip it and click the "BudgoTuner.exe" file. Very simple progam and it's very easy to use.



Here's a deep link to the file, don't let the French filename, "acordeur.zip", fool ya. The unzipped exe program inside is called "Budgo Tuner" and it's in English!



Budgo Tuner - Zip File



The page where the program "Acordeur" is located & can be downloaded from is in French. In case you want to download it from the page, just look for the "Acordeur" download link there. Here's the link to the page.



Les archives de NeT RocK StaTioN



Hey, I see you called your guitar "her" - so does she have a name, ala BBKing's "Lucille"?

[droolymutt]

Intonation and pitch are basically the same thing...





But in "guitar" terms, a guitar's "intonation" refers to it's ability to play in tune up and down the neck.





It the intonation is off, you can be in tune at the 3rd fret, but totally wacked at the 12th fret...



The intonation is good when the hamonic at the 12th fret has the exact same pitch as the fretted note...





It's pretty easy to adjust on a Strat...