download songs for $150,000

[bbchris]

And how do YOU get paid for your radio airplay?



ascap have an arrangement with HK where they ONLY pay a maximum of US$100/person a YEAR for HK songwriters. How's that for fair? Oh they don't give publishing royalties to companies so Shazza Music gets $0 from any USA airplay.



The UK royalty collection company demands 100 pounds to join!!



I could go on but I have to dash out the door now!! Back later!

|Blah Blah|Thinking Out Loud|Jane Eliz||Talk Soup |

[Seismic Anamoly]

Quote:

---

...and the record industry should pay me for the pain and suffering!

---

I hereby nominate THAT for "Musical Quote Of The Year"!!



Amen, brother.....Amen!!

[droolymutt]

Asian legalities are far different from North American, so I really can't compare oranges to apples here.....





Copyright laws are also vastly different....







My point was simply that people should not be able to simply TAKE an artist's work, unless the artist is willing to give it away.



But it's all moot - God Bless the Internet.











LARREE - Where's my Freakin' Twinkie, ya putz..?!?!?......

[bbchris]

I agree that laws differ across countries but the basic idea is the same. ascap has an arrangement with our local royalty collection company and try as hard as they could, ascap wouldn't bulge.



I actually collect royalties and I have been for many years now either personally or for Shazza Music's songwriters.



Surprisingly it's the TV and CABLE channels that begrudge paying royalties to songwriters. Many cable channels in Asia refuse to pay royalties to the tune of millions of dollars. Sisters of Sharon are regularly played too. And RIAA want to go after teenagers trading files? Priorities my friend, priorities.

|Blah Blah|Thinking Out Loud|Jane Eliz||Talk Soup |

[droolymutt]

Actually, from what I understand, the RIAA wants to go after significant uploaders of copyrighted material, as opposed to the occaisional downloader (teenager or otherwise).





Power to 'em sez I, sez me....









(ok - back to bed now...)

[droolymutt]

I can't believe anyone can try to justify simply TAKING someone's work..



Without permission.



Without compensation.





Chris, - in your lingerie business.. - your designs must be copyrighted, no?



What if someone started copying your designs, and then underselling you to your own clients?





I think the principle is the same...

[bbchris]

AH!



No! Because copyright is SO specific that we don't bother in lingerie - you only have to change something - the straps used, the clasp in the center, the fabric used on the cups etc. and it's a NEW design - we'd spend a fortune on copyright for no reason.



It's only illegal for me to make a bra and whack a "Victorias Secret" label on it, if VS didn't order this from us.



I can make a bra absolutely identical to VS and sell it too because VS don't use copyrights either. Amazing isn't it?

The LABELS and BRANDNAMES are copyrights.



Sorry if that wasn't the answer you'd hope I say.....

|Blah Blah|Thinking Out Loud|Jane Eliz||Talk Soup |

[droolymutt]

ok - I guess that was a poor analogy....





I guess I don't know enough about lingerie.....







anyways - I don't wanna beat this topic to death....



I just feel very strongly about people simply taking things from others....







DAMN... - now I sound self-righteous - and I've downloaded tons of tunes myself........





oh well...





wanna Twinkie?

[Seismic Anamoly]

Net services promise anonymous file sharing



By Jefferson Graham, USA Today



"With the record industry preparing to sue its customers — at least those who download without paying — now comes the next step: file-sharing services that promise to keep users anonymous.



Recording Industry Association of America officials say they can find any song swapper on services such as Kazaa and Grokster using simple tracking software. But new services such as Earth Station 5 and eDonkey2000 say they can protect the identity of their users. And established file-sharing services say they will adapt to protect their customers.



The RIAA's actions "will force us to come up with solutions that will make it harder, if not impossible, to detect who the users are," says Elan Oren of Imesh, a song- and game-swap firm based in Israel. "It's the never-ending game of the firewall and the hacker."



Imesh — which has been in operation since 1999 and somehow never was sued, unlike Napster, Scour, Aimster, Audio Galaxy, Kazaa, Morpheus and Grokster — has 50 million registered users. Oren suggests that, instead of suing its customer base, the RIAA make peace with file sharers and learn to co-exist.



"By attacking its users, they are motivating them not to pay," he says. "We met with them and begged them to make their material available on Imesh for a fee, because we know our users would gladly pay. (The RIAA) refused."



Songs on Imesh are traded the traditional way — click on a title to download the file, and it ends up on your hard drive. New programs such as eDonkey and Earth Station 5 do it differently, cutting a file into little pieces and reassembling it when it arrives at your hard drive — a process that makes it harder for file sharers to be tracked and unmasked.



Still, Internet detective Mark Ishikawa insists that despite new technologies, if it happens online, he'll find it. "If five buddies are sharing in their dorm room, that's one thing," says the CEO of BayTSP, which works for studios and record labels. "Once it gets to critical mass and goes out onto the Internet, you can't hide."



Another avenue that analysts expect to lure file sharers is instant messaging. AOL, MSN and Yahoo's chat programs have nearly 100 million users among them. Besides conversing with buddies, users of the software can send photos and music files to each other, without being tracked by the record industry.



For now, the RIAA says it will stay focused on the more established file-sharing programs. "We can't solve every problem, only the biggest ones before us," says RIAA president Cary Sherman.



Kazaa, the most popular swap service with more than 240 million users, shows no sign of slowing down despite the legal threats: 890 million files were being traded Thursday afternoon by 4.3 million users."

[Seismic Anamoly]

Quote:

---

For now, the RIAA says it will stay focused on the more established file-sharing programs. "We can't solve every problem, only the biggest ones before us," says RIAA president Cary Sherman.

---

BULLSHIT....let's Horsewhip those 15 year-olds, by God...



By Jefferson Graham, USA TODAY



"When Karol Franks, a mother of two teens in Pasadena, Calif., heard Wednesday that the music industry was threatening to sue average folks who swap music online — like her kids — she posed a question that must have been on many minds: "How can there be a lawsuit when there are tens of thousands of people who use file-sharing programs?"



Because the Recording Industry Association of America, flush with recent court wins in its fight against digital piracy, can now move from suing the companies that facilitate the free swapping of music files to targeting some of the 57 million computers users who regularly swap.







By the numbers



People who use file-sharing services in the USA: 57 million



Number of times Kazaa's software has been downloaded worldwide: 230 million



Users sharing files Wednesday afternoon on Kazaa: 4.2 million



Files being shared on Kazaa Wednesday afternoon: 900 million



Songs sold in two months at Apple Music Store: 5 million



percentage of ages 12 to 18 who say they'd download a new song they like: 35%



percentage of ages 12 to 18 who say they'd buy a new song they like: 10%



Source: The Yankee Group, RIAA, USA TODAY research





Going after home users is the industry's best chance to slow the growth of file-swapping services, which have boomed since Napster's demise in 2001.



And the record labels, suffering a drop of 20% in album sales since 2000 according to unreleased Nielsen SoundScan figures, feel they need to take action.



But for parents such as Franks, "these are kids who I believe are the majority of the thieves," she says. "To what extent would they be able to make financial amends if these minors can be held liable?"



In practical terms, not much. Four college students were sued in April, and settled shortly after for $12,000 to $17,500 each. But potential fines are a whopping $150,000 a song, which would make a person who shares as few as 10 songs online accountable for $1.5 million.



Attorney Whitney Broussard calls the copyright fines astronomical. "The penalty far outweighs the actual harm," he says. "When the reality of the size of these damages sinks in, when the parents of a 15-year-old downloader are sued for millions, people are going to be stunned."



Few expect that even legal action against users will end online piracy. But the industry hopes to at least give breathing room to some of the legal services starting to gain traction.



"It's very difficult to compete with free," says Bob Ohlweiler of MusicMatch, which has the largest subscriber base of any legitimate subscription service — 145,000 users for its listen-only MX Radio — and hopes to start selling song downloads by summer's end. "The injection of personal responsibility is a sensible approach. It's like a speeding ticket. Everybody doesn't get one, but a few people do, and a lot of people slow down."



Others see the offensive against fans as another wrongheaded move by an industry that could have handled the situation with vision years ago.



"Can you imagine Wal-Mart spending time to collect evidence, file lawsuits against its customers together and clog up the courts?" says Gale Daikoku, retail analyst with market research firm GartnerG2. She calls this kind of assault on a customer base "unprecedented." Theft in the $2.7 trillion retail industry is 2% of sales, she says, but stores like Macy's and Nordstrom "focus on making the customer experience better and having people return to the stores, not on chasing them away."



Not everyone buys into piracy as the sole cause of the industry's slump. "Digital copying, whether file sharing or CD burning, is definitely a factor, but it's not the only culprit," says Geoff Mayfield, Billboard's director of charts. "Music is not necessarily a recession-proof product. ... When you're not certain of your job status or how much money you have in the bank, it's easy to put off buying music, especially if you're not a kid."



But Andrew Lack, CEO of Sony Music, home to such artists as the Dixie Chicks, Bruce Springsteen and Bob Dylan, hails the move as just what the industry needs. "I liken this to Chapter 1 of the new book being written about digital music," he says. "The lawsuits are an additional mechanism to level the playing fields, and a measure of how much the game has changed."



Lack believes consumers will be induced by this action to seriously consider legal alternatives such as Apple's Music Store, which has sold 5 million songs in its first two months. "Legitimate music is readily available online and more services will be out there for consumers. That's the headline."



The recent introduction of the Apple Store wowed critics and users with its ease of use — all songs are 99 cents a track, with few of the restrictions found on other services. But the Apple Store is only available to Apple users, about 3% of the computer market.



"We're dancing as fast as we can," says Lack. "By the end of the year, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon and others will have services for Windows users as well."



Try telling that to Jorge Gonzalez, who runs zeropaid.com, a Web site that serves as a forum for online music fans and includes links to file-sharing software such as Kazaa and Morpheus, as well as newcomers named Blubster and Earth Station 5. He says that average users might be intimidated, but knowledgeable computer users will always be several steps ahead of the industry.



"There will be a large migration from Kazaa to other networks, where people feel more secure," Gonzalez says. "But will it stop file sharing? Hell no." He says several new services are being developed to hide users' identities: "Technology will always evolve around such obstacles."



Tom Rogers, 31, a frequent downloader from Brooklyn, says there's no way he's going to stop sharing online music. "There are those who think that peer-to-peer is equivalent to bank robbery, but I disagree. Most of my activity involves uploading and getting a satisfying feeling that I am sharing something beautiful with friends and a community of music lovers."



Should Rogers or others be targeted, "the law is pretty clear; there's no defense," says Palo Alto, Calif., lawyer Mark Radcliffe. "Most people won't have the resources to pay for attorney fees, and if they came to me, I'd say, 'Settle.' "



The RIAA says that, to start, it's going after traders who share large numbers of files. RIAA president Cary Sherman says that about 90% of all online music piracy is committed by 10% of users. "It demonstrates that if you can get to these 10%, you can have a dramatic impact on the peer-to-peer systems."



But worried parents may not be buying it. "Has a theater ever sued a kid for sneaking into a movie without paying?" Karol Franks says. "I think the music industry will spend a lot of money for little reward."

Edited by: Seismic Anamoly at: 6/27/03 11:24 pm

[droolymutt]

Quote:

---

BULLSHIT....let's Horsewhip those 15 year-olds, by God...

---

No - that's too severe......





Besides - I think it's perfectly sensible to condone petty theft to 15 year olds, and justify it by directing attention to the crimes their elders commit.



Makes for a better future society.



Dontcha think?

[bbchris]

Interestingly enough I just read that Radiohead's new album was available for download (illegally!) before they released the album and it hit #1 in the week it was released in the UK. I guess people must have liked what they heard....

|Blah Blah|Thinking Out Loud|Jane Eliz||Talk Soup |

[Seismic Anamoly]

I only wish I had gone to Law School....they'll be rolling in cash and laughing all the way to the bank...



"The next phase in the anti-piracy war hit full throttle as the RIAA warned that it would begin collecting information on individuals engaged in substantial sharing of music files, in what could amount to "thousands of lawsuits against individual computer users" according to the press release. Yes, the recording industry is now ready to sue their customers, a prospect contemplated ever since the emerge of Napster in the late 90's...."



...probably number more in the hundreds of thousands once the bloodsuckers are through...



Collecting information?? Hmmmmmm....good ol' Big Brother at work...I have some info they can collect....



And I don't even use the programs...Orrin Hatch has lost his frickin' mind....



"Senator Endorses Tough Action Against Music Piracy



By Ted Bridis

Associated Press Writer

Tuesday, June 17, 2003; 6:51 PM





The chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee said Tuesday he favors developing new technology to remotely destroy the computers of people who illegally download music from the Internet.



The surprise remarks by Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, during a hearing on copyright abuses represent a dramatic escalation in the frustrating battle by industry executives and lawmakers in Washington against illegal music downloads.



During a discussion on methods to frustrate computer users who illegally exchange music and movie files over the Internet, Hatch asked technology executives about ways to damage computers involved in such file trading. Legal experts have said any such attack would violate federal anti-hacking laws.



"No one is interested in destroying anyone's computer," replied Randy Saaf of MediaDefender Inc., a secretive Los Angeles company that builds technology to disrupt music downloads. One technique deliberately downloads pirated material very slowly so other users can't.



"I'm interested," Hatch interrupted. He said damaging someone's computer "may be the only way you can teach somebody about copyrights."







Hey....Orrin.....

Edited by: Seismic Anamoly at: 6/28/03 9:48 pm

[Seismic Anamoly]

"The RIAA readies for self-destruction



By Frank Cotolo



The RIAA is going after 5.7 million people who it claims download copyrighted material without paying for it. The RIAA says it will bring every last one of them to court, sue them and maybe even send them to prison.



It is, of course, a scare tactic. One more vicious attack at the very audience the music industry needs to survive. But, the music industry doesn't seem to care that trying to make up for a 26-percent loss in revenue-which it claims is caused by downloading-could end its business all together.



Sound stupid? Let's look at why this new lawsuit policy is a bag of gas and try to do it objectively.



Suppose the RIAA sues a mere percentage of the 5.7 million they are after? How about 50,000 people, obviously most of them of college age. We assume this because the bulk of the so-called pirates are probably buying more music than they download, even if most of it is not the top-selling stuff these days. All right, so now the RIAA Has 50,000 lawsuits amounting to billions of dollars (RIAA claims it will sue to the tune of $150,000 per downloaded song).



Then what? Do any of the 50,000 being sued try to fight back? All these people need is one lawyer, a sharp one looking to make a name for him or herself. They will come on consignment for this task-to find a place in history with a landmark decision. The RIAA has to cope with 50,000 cases. Just how large is the RIAA's legal staff?



Well, let us say that no matter what happens the RIAA wins 50,000 of these suits by settlement. Bad blood? You bet. Maybe those 50,000 people who have to fork over settlement money are soured by the music industry and just stop buying music. Maybe some of them continue to get their music through another form of "piracy," one the RIAA hasn't been able to nab? Either way or any way you cut this, does the RIAA get back any of its 26-percent loss?



Nope. These people have not been "taught a lesson," they have been exiled. Speaking of that, what if some of them are tossed into jail for downloading music? This is going to look great for the purveyors of life's rich art. The RIAA won't only lose those customers; it will pick up some of the most hideous press it could ever imagine.



Picture this possible story. "A 24-year-old imprisoned last year for downloading copyrighted music from an internet site, who was brought to trial by the RIAA, was found dead in his jail cell today. Authorities say the boy was so brutally assaulted sexually…" Or any such horror story that may be ignited from a jail sentence for this "crime."



Should, on the other hand, the RIAA begin to take these people to court and be snagged by legal fees and, even, a Supreme Court judgement that waters down the "crime," the music industry will suffer more. Corporate heads will roll and the industry will be in a shamble.



The threats, the actions and the all-mighty attitude motivating the RIAA is the stuff that revolutions are made of. Fear may be a great weapon, but once the frightened become brave, the empire is toppled and cowards become guerillas.



Make no mistake about it-the RIAA has already lost this war. New laws for copyrights and royalties could be the result of its trying to corral and change the mindsets of 5.7 million people. The RIAA has drawn a line in the sand, per se, without considering any other options of dealing with their product and the swarm of new technology that appears faster than you can say 'Apple.'"

[Seismic Anamoly]

More Hot Air On File Sharing



By Eric de Fontenay, Musicdish.com



"Nielsen/NetRatings provided good news for at least some music industry executives as a recent survey contradicted the popular belief that file sharing deters music purchasing. The survey by the web tracking firm found that file sharers were in fact "111% more likely to purchase rap music than the average Internet user over the past three months," followed by dance/club music (106%) & alternative rock (77%). What's more surprising is that these are the same consumers (young, urban & wired) that the major labels are most afraid of losing to file sharing and presently targeting with lawsuits and hack attacks."