Riots in France could spread through Europe

MIKE BURN · Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: re

Quote:
DreamTone7

Then why proclaim a fatwa against fighting, Mike? You obviously aren't aware of how radical Muslims have been proselytizing in France in the poorer districts...or heard that rioters have been heard chanting "Allah is great". Now that you are aware, how do you explain it away?

...or do you just turn a deaf ear to it because it's just to inconvenient for you to have to realize.

With or without any "Fatwa" of some religious, spoken out for SOME of the rioters, we here in Europe do not see the problem in France in any way related to a "muslim problem" or "war on terror". That's a exclusive point of view reserved for Americans.

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

Mike - "...we here in Europe do not see the problem in France in any way related to a "muslim problem" or "war on terror". That's a exclusive point of view reserved for Americans."

And that is exactly why it's going to become as an albatros around europe's neck...one that will eventually choke them until they can ignore it no longer. It may take ten years before the next big outbreak of hostilities...or, it may be next year. But it's coming...and now Muslim radicals are most likely to have a base with which to spread the cancer from. All because europe prefers to turn a blind eye to what is happening.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

ans · Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 441

One tiny positive to flow from almost two weeks of rioting in Paris and across France is that maybe, just maybe, would-be city planners from America will pause for a second before simply assuming that Euro-style living is the best thing ever. Or to put it bluntly, would some front-load garages come in handy when the New Urbanist, pedestrian-friendly on-street parking is just a bull's-eye for a firebomb?

The occasional three-day trip to the French countryside is probably responsible for more bad ideas about zoning and land-use than all advanced degrees put together. The ugly images of the past few days should not be more persuasive than common sense, but they might puncture Euro trendiness among America's planner set all the same.

That might at least balance out the truly senseless violence that was met by an almost Katrina-esque response from French officials. Presumably Jacques Chirac had a reason for waiting 11 days to comment on the riots, but needing time to come up with great oratory surely was not among them. The situation seems ripe for some real leadership to bubble up from below the ossified political structure and point France back toward sanity.

www.newsday.com/news/nati...-headlines

NRKofOver · Joined: 07 Sep 2002 Posts: 505

Man DT, you sound exactly like the segregationists of the 1950's and 60's. Justification for oppression based on unfounded fear.

The riots are an expression of poverty and a lack of hope. There are many many religious affiliations among the rioters.

Maybe Islamic fundamentalists in those neighborhoods are helping to fuel the riots, that's entirely possible, but this is not an issue of Islam or religion at all, it is one of economics.

My music for the disenchanted masses

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

NRK - "Justification for oppression based on unfounded fear."

Oppression is continual...I'm just talking about until things calm down and there is no more burning/trashing and people getting hurt. Something that should be standard riot control for any country and regardless of who is rioting.

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

Picture this:

You have a dam that's holding back water. The dam is as a social conciousness of what is right and wrong, and a respect for authority to maintain it. The water is as the anger and frustration of all the poor circumstances that the people are living under in the "suberbs" of Paris (and in other cities/countries, too).

Learn to live in peace regardless of your situation, as Christ did, and the anger fades, and the water level subsides.

This is obviously not what happened.

Now picture a truck crashing into the bottom of the dam. This is as the accidental electrocutions. Did this accident alone cause the dam to break? We don't know...and we never will. In this case, the truck was loaded with high explosives...which was as the political, anti-western teachings of Arab Muslim proselytizers. This weakens the respect for authority that (as part of the dam) is holding back the anger (water). When the truck hit, the dam broke, and the water (anger and rage) came pooring out.

Now what caused the dam to break? It all boils down to whether or not you believe that the truck alone (without the explosives) would have been enough to break the dam. The Paris authorities state that no cops were chasing the two youths killed in the accident. So if the two youths were dead, who might have stated so, and spread the word? Opportunity to start something? Could be. Understand that the Muslim Brotherhood is the largest group of Muslims active in Paris...and is the same group that both spawned Hamas and believes in violent methods for forcing conversions to their faith:

www.inthenationalinterest...Feder.html

Arabs have long looked to establish a political foothold in europe, and have been looking to France as this opportunity for a long time...pooring hundreds of thousands of dollars into the effort.

www.chris-kutschera.com/A..._islam.htm

Regardless of what you believe as to the reason for the start of the riots, europe is in for big trouble now that actual violence has begun.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

Galmin · The King has spoken! Joined: 30 Dec 2001 Posts: 1711

Quote:
The dam is as a social conciousness of what is right and wrong, and a respect for authority to maintain it.

When the dams maintanence through the authority is nonexistent (just as was the case with the actual physical dam in NOLA) and desperation diminish the respect for authority, the dam might be so undermined that all you need is a truck scraping the walls (instead of the truck hitting the dam frontally with full speed it actually was only scraping it=pretext).

The when all hell breaks lose there are those who will, as always, use the moment to tell everybody how much explosive there was in the truck that was driving alongside the dam (a very solid dam, of course).

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

Respect for authority itself and respect for its position in society to maintain social order are two different things. In order to have the latter, you first have to be interested in maintaining that social order. The former is not necessary for the latter. It's similar to not having respect for Bush, yet having respect for the presidency.

Once you've decided that what is right and wrong no longer matters, respect for the maintainance of order is no longer an issue. You don't care anymore. So, did the death of the two youths push the locals past the point of not caring about right and wrong, or did they have some help in changing what their views were about right and wrong? (ie, violence is now acceptable) So we're back to square one...would the truck have been enough alone, or not? Methinks somebody thinks it wasn't enough, and regardless of explosives (or as part of them), increased the size of the truck. How did we come to know that the two youths thought they were being chased by police if they weren't alive to say so, anyway? The police say they weren't even chasing them. I wonder what's going to come out in the wash.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

HKRockChick · No More Peas! Joined: 25 Nov 2003 Posts: 1513

"I've said what I think the cause was...if I'm betting a beer, I want to know what he thinks it is."

You're a real gamblin' man there DT.

"If you don't understand that..."

hahahahahaha there speaks the master of "understanding". I wonder how much you actually understand of that bible you profess to keep reading. You preach exactly the opposite. Maybe the reason is your poor comprehension abilities.

well...it doesn't concern you anyway." Says who?

DT - sounds like you lost a bit of your "patience" there... :nana

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

HKRC - "I wonder how much you actually understand of that bible you profess to keep reading. You preach exactly the opposite."

You'd have to know the Bible pretty well in order to make such a bold statement. Based on things you've said about the meaning of the Bible and the passages in it on this board, I doubt you do know it that well.

HKRC - "DT - sounds like you lost a bit of your "patience" there"

It happens...but it didn't there. I was going to say "it's none of your business", but wanted to "tone" it down a bit. :bleh

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

Galmin · The King has spoken! Joined: 30 Dec 2001 Posts: 1711

Quote:
So, did the death of the two youths push the locals past the point of not caring about right and wrong, or did they have some help in changing what their views were about right and wrong?

Are they burning cars regardless of brand, or do they deliberately choose a certain type of car to torch? Hey, maybe it's one gigantic insurance fraud generated by Renault? Maybe salesmen has been proselytizing with an award of 500.- Euro for each burned car! Thousands upon thousands of Megane and Laguna to replace means a good push for the turnover.

Think that is far fetched? Try "ongoing Jihadi civil war in France"

HKRockChick · No More Peas! Joined: 25 Nov 2003 Posts: 1513

Quote:
You'd have to know the Bible pretty well in order to make such a bold statement. Based on things you've said about the meaning of the Bible and the passages in it on this board, I doubt you do know it that well.

Funny. I'd say exactly the same thing about you. Oh, you may have read more of it than I did, but I'd question how much content and meaning you actually gleaned from it. On the basis of your posts for the years I've been on this board, I seriously question your powers of comprehension and discernment.

Although I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you may be deliberately acting obtuse to drive us mad?

:ui

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

HKRC - "Although I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you may be deliberately acting obtuse to drive us mad?"

As I've mentioned before, I'll sometimes bring up facts that others seem to ignore in their own analysis, or don't want to address (for whatever reason), that point to an opposing conclusion. For those who can't see these facts, refuse to acknowledge (deny) them because they point to a conclusion they find uncomfortable, or simply can't understand how these facts fit into the framework of the concept being discussed, it may indeed seem as if I'm being obtuse. But I assure you it's not with the intent of driving anyone mad...except for maybe you, Deb.

On the subject of the Bible, you can't take just some of it and build your conclusions as to its meaning based on the parts you're familiar with...you have to take all of it in and build the complete picture. For those who think they have the complete picture by only having read a portion of it, I would suggest they read the whole thing. I think they'll find that they were wrong about at least a few things. Additionally, I would most strongly suggest they don't accept others opinions (including mine) on the subject...except the part about the need to read it for themselves! But, in saying that, I feel confident that I could back up what I say concerning the Bible with what is found in the Bible itself...the actual words as written. This works best when the person you're talking to is already familiar with the Bible...people who aren't don't get it as easily. They take things out of context quite often.

Melody and Instruments for the soul...

HKRockChick · No More Peas! Joined: 25 Nov 2003 Posts: 1513

Quote:
On the subject of the Bible, you can't take just some of it and build your conclusions as to its meaning based on the parts you're familiar with

Amen to that.

Better tell your evangelical pals that too.

:ghost

Rev9Volts · Joined: 10 Jul 2003 Posts: 1327

Here is a breaking news story:

>

> President Bush May Send Marines for French Assistance

>

> President Bush has authorized the Joint Chiefs to begin drawing up a

> battle plan to pull France's @#%$ out of the fire again. Facing an

> apparent overwhelming force of up to 400 pissed off teenagers Mr. Bush

> doubts France's ability to hold off the little pissants. "Hell, if the

> last two world wars are any indication, I would expect France to

> surrender any day now", said Bush.

> Joint Chiefs head, Gen. Peter Pace, warned the President that it might

> be necessary to send up to 5 marines to get things under control. The

> general admitted that 5 marines may be overkill but he wanted to get

> the thing under control within 24 hours of arriving on scene.

> He stated he was having a hard time finding even one marine to help

> those ungrateful bastards out for a third time but thought that he

> could persuade a few women marines to do the job before they went on

> pregnancy leave.

>

> President Bush asked Gen. Pace to get our marines out of there as soon

> as possible after order was restored. He also reminded Gen. Pace to

> make sure the marines did not take soap, razors, or deodorant with

> them. The least they stand out the better.