About American Intelligence

NRKofOver · Joined: 07 Sep 2002 Posts: 505

We based our war against Iraq on 'intelligence' showing that Saddam was working on or actually possessed nuclear, chemical or biological weapons. Apparently our intelligence wasn't very good in that respect.

But even weirder, last night on Nightline, Senator McCain was saying that the rebuilding of Iraq has gone from $1.7 billion to around $20 billion because we didn't know that the country was in such bad disrepair.

How can we have any faith in our intelligence gathering agencies when we didn't even know that most of Iraq was without power before we blew anything up? How come we didn't know prior to invading Iraq that their oil fields and the structures associated with getting that oil to market was three or four or maybe even a decade away from profitable for the Iraqi people? Who runs our 'intelligence' agencies? These people are morons and idiots, apparently more concerned with political posturing than actual diligent work. I can't trust one more thing that comes from this administration, it's all backpedaling, shabby explanations and outright lies.

God Bless America!!!!!

My music for the disenchanted masses

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

Don't believe everything you read. I'd ask both McCain and you, NRK, where you get your "facts". Both of you appear, at least to me, to have "motives" for seeing these "truths" the way you do. Oil may not have been profitable for the Iraqi people, but Saddam was certainly cleaning up....to the tune of billions.

NRKofOver · Joined: 07 Sep 2002 Posts: 505

The disturbing truth in all of this is that the average American citizen doesn't have a clue about anything because this administration has their heads up their asses. Or they're just flat out lying for personal gain. Or they think that the average American is an idiot who will buy whatever they spew. I don't have any 'facts', I only have what I can get from government people and that's why I have so many questions. The 'facts' I'm getting suck.

My music for the disenchanted masses

DreamTone7 · Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2571

"The disturbing truth in all of this is that the average American citizen doesn't have a clue about anything because this administration has their heads up their asses. Or they're just flat out lying for personal gain."

I'd bet on #2.

"I don't have any 'facts', I only have what I can get from government people and that's why I have so many questions. The 'facts' I'm getting suck."

That's because the government, as well as the media, have their own agendas. These days, media "facts" are no more reliable than government ones. So where does this leave us? Using common sense and reading between the lines with a healthy dose of personal knowledge to come up with something that as closely resembles the truth as we can get it. The first trick is to ask yourself why a person, government official or otherwise, would say what they have said. Answering this question is difficult at best, but leads one closer to the truth than anything directly spoken by anyone has for a long time.

NRKofOver · Joined: 07 Sep 2002 Posts: 505

Dream, unfortunately the 'truth' I've come to over the past couple of decades is that our nation and our democracy is a failure of epic proportions.

The people don't run this country, they are misled, manipulated and coerced into compliance.

That's my truth, and it's very very sad.

I recognize the problems with the media, corporate America and politicians, but what I don't get is why no one seems to care.

Honestly, I would guess that the vast majority of Americans could care less one way or the other if we found WMD's in Iraq. But one slant or the other is going to either make it an issue or make it go away. The 'truth' doesn't matter at all.

The media/politicians/corporations know this and all they do is formulate plans to make the American people believe that they listen. When ultimately, they're going to pretty much do anything they think they can get away with.

God Bless America!

My music for the disenchanted masses

Galmin · The King has spoken! Joined: 30 Dec 2001 Posts: 1711

Quote:
We based our war against Iraq on 'intelligence' showing that Saddam was working on or actually possessed nuclear, chemical or biological weapons. Apparently our intelligence wasn't very good in that respect.

The war was based on propaganda in the guise of intelligence.

It's nothing new to sell a pre-emptive war (like Gustav Adolf's participation in the 30 year war) hard, Gustav II Adolf did that for years through the churches until the subject was officially taken up by government (riksrådet) in 1629.

The key is to use snappy, simple arguments (optimized to bring the wished effect and not neccessarily to spread any truth, whatsoever) and repeat them until even the dullest in the audience join the chant.

-Gutta cavat lapidem, non vi sed saepe cadendo

Edited by: Galmin at: 10/5/03 2:49 pm